[USMA:45737] Re: [Fwd: Energy and power]

2009-09-05 Thread John Frewen-Lord
I was once told by a very experienced engineer, involved in wind turbine design, that the energy used to manufacture all these devices can actually exceed the energy they will produce over their lifetimes. I haven't worked any numbers out for myself, but it would be interesting to see if he

[USMA:45738] Re: [Fwd: Energy and power]

2009-09-05 Thread John M. Steele
I have no idea if that is true.   However, they are generally reported based on the maximum capacity of the associated generator.  That is misleading as that level of power is rarely generated.   Most turbines require a wind of 14 m/s to reach rated power.  One of the few caseswhere wind in

[USMA:45739] Re: [Fwd: Energy and power]

2009-09-05 Thread Stan Jakuba
1 kW·h = 3.6 MJ (megajoules). Mostly :-) Stan - Original Message - From: James R. Frysinger j...@metricmethods.com To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu Sent: 09 Sep 04, Friday 14:44 Subject: [USMA:45733] [Fwd: Energy and power] I recently posted this email to Rick

[USMA:45740] Re: [Fwd: Energy and power]

2009-09-05 Thread Stan Jakuba
Of course they will never pay for themselves (otherwise they would have been all over the place paid for by private money). Their electricity also will not get relatively cheaper when oil prices go up. Nor will wind mills reduce foreign oil consumption. Electricity production is unrelated to

[USMA:45741] Re: [Fwd: Energy and power]

2009-09-05 Thread James R. Frysinger
Stan, You provide a figure of 1 W/m2 for a quality site. Is that area in the denominator the land area, the blade surface area, or the blade-swept area? You've raised many valid points which one will not see discussed much, if at all, by green-wind aficionados. Jim Stan Jakuba wrote:

[USMA:45742] Re: [Fwd: Energy and power]

2009-09-05 Thread John M. Steele
I am having trouble relating to Stan's figure of 1 W/m².  However, the usual development of the equations looks at the swept area of the rotor.   The machine can only extract a fraction of the wind power, 30% overall being GOOD..  This page gives a reasonable development of the equations:

[USMA:45743] Re: [Fwd: Energy and power]

2009-09-05 Thread Stan Jakuba
Taken out of context, it was not clear that the W/m² refers to the land. It is meant to be reflective of the section of the Earth's surface that is occupied by the towers to the max practical density. The larger the propeller, the larger the radial and axial distance between adjacent towers.

[USMA:45744] Fw: Measurement in the UAE

2009-09-05 Thread Michael Payne
This did not go thru the previous time - Original Message - From: Michael Payne To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: Thursday, 03 September 2009 14:48 Subject: Re: [USMA:45721] Measurement in the UAE I don't think this is an entirely accurate picture. I lived in Abu Dhabi from 1980

[USMA:45745] Mathematics improvement due to metrication

2009-09-05 Thread Pat Naughtin
Dear All, The Telegraph at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/6138456/Maths-standards-no-better-than-mid-70s.html and the Daily Mail at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211345/Maths-skills-standing-thirty-years-GCSE-grades-soaring.html have both reported that metrication has