I've remembered something else at the NCT meeting. There was a chart behind the 'teacher' which was leaning against the back wall and it had 3 diagrams on it with different numbers with 'cm' shown after it. I believe it has something to do with cervix dilation in centimeters- or something -but it was not covered last night (I was going to keep that back until it came up in 'class' but I thought I'd give a snippet now - in order to reveal that there was a bit of metric there, only not covered in last night's fun 'n' games so to speak). Luckily the subject of 'Hormones' came up too - seems I'm not the only one to have my head bitten off at the very smallest silly things! Oh the joys of living with a pregnant woman :-D Steve
Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 18:22:44 +0000 From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net To: usma@colostate.edu Subject: [USMA:44954] Re: metric Britain Yep, that's pretty revealing stuff. Thanks, Stephen! Ezra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Humphreys" <barkatf...@hotmail.com> To: "U.S. Metric Association" <usma@colostate.edu> Sent: Friday, May 1, 2009 3:08:04 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [USMA:44952] Re: metric Britain A quick update for you - as promised ezra - regarding imp-usage in the UK. Last night we attended our first NCT. The NCT is basically a support network for those couples about to start a family. Basically you meet in a specific place and are 'coached'. Everyone in the group (all couples) are expecting a baby at the same time -or thereabouts. In our case the group covers June. There's not an awful lot of measures used but to pick up on when they were for purposes of this thread the "teacher" (so to speak) told us how the baby will be growing by an "ounce per day" at the stage we are now at. Most couple expressed shock at this amazing growth rate. Also we were told how babies are getting bigger and we were shown historic data where birth weights were expressed in lb and oz by the professional. Similarly whenever weight was discussed it was in this format. During a break I noticed that the hired premises was actually used by schools studying insects and the like - with an emphasis on bees. I picked up a curriculum book and scanned it quickly - I noticed that it bore an official looking "curriculum" heading. I also noted a number of measures. Temps were all in deg C, amounts to use in experiments talked about 'cups' and 'spoonfuls' etc, and where the measurement was not part of the teaching I noted imperial usage - eg, "use a table approximately 5 ft by 2.5 ft". (literal decimalisation of feet there) for one particular exersise. Also - just to bolt it on the end - on "Blue Peter" the other day they mentioned sewers and spoke about how many "millions gallons of poo" went through them (sorry about the language there - not my words!!!). Blue Peter is aired as part of CBBC (Childrens BBC) and is aimed at School kids up to low teens. Steve Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 21:18:47 +0000 From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net To: barkatf...@hotmail.com CC: usma@colostate.edu Subject: Re: [USMA:44537] Re: metric Britain Thank you for the helpful details, Stephen. Since you mentioned what people read or what they hear/see on the radio/telly, perhaps you can describe what you see and hear in an ordinary day in those venues as well as what you hear in daily conversation between people and which units they spontaneously use in everyday conversation in the UK. Cheers, Ezra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Humphreys" <barkatf...@hotmail.com> To: "U.S. Metric Association" <usma@colostate.edu> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 10:49:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [USMA:44537] Re: metric Britain Thanks for the chance Ezra - much appreciated. To be honest the best way is to visit this country - although I admit that's a rather costly option!! I also think - to be fair - that your opinion can shape the way you see things. Say I was a conservative MP - and you asked me how well Labour was governing the UK - how would I respond? That said - I really honestly do see myself as 'pro-choice' with a 'general preference' to imperial (but not always) so it's not as clear cut as polarised politicians. You've got me thinking though! Maybe I should take a moment to think about these things. We just popped out to see an old Stag (not wildlife, an old Triumph car) and you can assume that as I was driving my dash presented me with miles/ mph, and the signs I saw were almost all miles/yds (there were some width/ height but these were imperial as I was driving country routes). The LCD display showed my engine temp in Celsius - I have it that way as the coolant is water - thus? I think you can see my thinking here!! ;-) I had to pop to halfords on the way back - they sell car bits. I need some oil for the mini. There are sat nav ads everywhere. Now originally I noted that they always advertised the unit with a visible 'metres' on the advertised screen (as if UK drivers would want that) - as John F-L might say - no one forced them to do that. Now, however they're all advertised using yards in the screen shot. I wonder if people wanted to make sure that they're unit matched their speedo, roads etc? I've yet to see someone set their GPS to metres. So - I go into Halfords. What do I buy? 4.5 Litres of Magnetec Oil - up clicks my 'metric quota'. Looking back so far - what's the most visual element to my day? I'd say the celsius in my car and the imperial road signs. My mini's spec tells me how many pints to put in - BUT - when I do the oil change I tend to put in 4 litres and use the dipstick for the rest. So measures do get involved a bit but I'd argue that it's more like the Tesco debate - ie the use of measures is less important than the scale visually. That's why I asked a question (a while ago) whether if US pro-mets had just one 'Genie wish' would they 'do the roads' or 'do the shelf edge'. I think you all know what would be preferable. I will always argue that the best gauge is what people 'SAY' and 'ACTUALLY READ' rather than the funny print on the side of a packet. Maybe that's why roads and pints at the pub are seemingly guarded by politicians and the press? Because that's a really tangible alteration that people would actually notice. Also - please remember that during a course of a day measurements make up a tiny portion of living - lets get some scale (insert pun) to this - there are more important things in life. Mine - today - was seeing this stag. As it happens the sat nav took us to a dead end with no car sales garage - so the story goes full circle in the end! What other experience would you want me to dig deeper into, Ezra? A day at work? A visit to Tesco? Another drive in the car? I'll do my best and be as honest as possible (I've nothing against the metric system - it just seems odd that I have to fight an odd american who keeps changing his name who admits he has never been here but 'knows' more than I do about life here!!!) From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net To: barkatf...@hotmail.com; usma@colostate.edu Subject: Re: [USMA:44516] Re: metric Britain Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:41:54 -0700 It seems like Stephen makes a good point. Perhaps he can describe a typical (even if a bit synthesized) day to illustrate the various encounters with Imperial that pop throughout his day. I think this would give me (as a distant American) a better feel for the everyday experience the typical Briton has of Imperial vs metric. thanks, Ezra ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Humphreys To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 7:02 AM Subject: [USMA:44516] Re: metric Britain If you can ignore measures related to moving around anywhere outside your home (whether on foot on bike or in car), or if you can avoid talking to other Britons, or if you can avoid reading newspapers or listening to the TV or if you can live without the radio ie - If reading the side of cartons and looking on the edge of a bottle constitutes the extent that the UK has become very metric friendly then..... yes. you have a point! :-D P.S. I also believe this is the way the USA is becoming regarding metric - ie metric progress in labelling From: j...@frewston.plus.com To: usma@colostate.edu Subject: [USMA:44507] Re: metric Britain Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:34:12 +0100 At the risk of flogging a dead horse, the attached scans confirm that Britain is far more metric than people like Stephen Humphreys like to make out. One of the scans shows a recipe that is on a small packing slip/newsletter that comes with a weekly organic veggie box my other half has on order from a local farm, Woodlands Farm (this really is local, not national or even county-wide). The recipe is metric. This from a farmer in Lincolnshire, a very conservative (and Conservative) part of the country. [For US readers, Conservatives are similar to Republicans, i.e. right wing as opposed to left wing Labour, equivalent to Democrats.] The other scans are from an installation booklet that came with a new electric shower I recently bought. Apart from a single reference to an inlet pipe diameter, it is ENTIRELY metric. I believe that, as I've said before, it is politicians aided and abetted by, for whatever reason, a hostile UK press, who are trying to prevent Britain from becoming fully metric. I believe the average person is quite comfortable with metric - how else to explain, for example, the recipe I've attached? There was no legal compulsion for it to be printed in metric - yet Woodland Farm obviously felt that was what their customers wanted. Have a good Easter everybody - I'm off now for my 400 km drive to my cousins's flat in Bournemouth. Cheers John F-L ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremiah MacGregor To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:44 AM Subject: [USMA:44499] Re: metric Britain You are deliberately trying to obfuscate the issue. The man simply did an inventory of his kitchen cupboards and refrigerator to get a sample of how British industry marks their packages. He proved that the vast majority are metric only. Thus in all honest from his inventory we can say British industry is NOT imperial friendly. Where measurement is important, such as in engineering and manufacturing, again metric is dominant if not the only system used. In this environment there is no imperial and definitely no dual.. In buying a ladder, there is no measurement. You buy it by description. In making a ladder there is measurement and those units are metric (millimetres). Stephen, everyone knows you use minute and insignificant details in order to present a far different picture then reality. You really need to wake up and get real. Your fantasy version of the use of imperial is very opposite that of the real world. Have you ever done an inventory like John did? Or is your cupboard and refrigerator bare due to your personal boycott of anything metric? Jerry From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com> To: jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com; U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu> Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 3:05:52 PM Subject: RE: [USMA:44421] Re: metric Britain In all honesty - you could approach this at an imperial-friendly or metric-friendly (or dual-friendly) argument to prove a point. I'd suggest that there's prob more metric than imperial however with things regarding items where measurement is important you'll usually get imperial or dual. I had to buy a ladder most recently -you can probably guess the length shown and the human weight it cold withstand - Thus for that shopping experience it was excusively 'dual'. I'm not sure why you reacted so bizzarely to this "Jerry" - most people know how it is. Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:14:09 -0700 From: jeremiahmacgre...@rocketmail.com Subject: [USMA:44421] Re: metric Britain To: usma@colostate.edu John, Shame on you for showing us that imperial is virtually dead in the UK. Stephen wanted everyone here to believe that imperial is everywhere. I sure would like to see what is in Stephen's cupboards and fridge. If a person refuses to buy anything metric then I would expect his fridge to contain only milk and his cupboards to contain chalk, pear and apple spread, Specialty coffee for cafetierres and some Belgian Waffles (not shown). Jerry From: John Frewen-Lord <j...@frewston.plus.com> To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu> Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 1:39:24 PM Subject: [USMA:44400] metric Britain Regarding the recent discussions on dual marking/labelling in respect of the UK, I just thought I'd do a quick check on various items I have in my house. I have listed a total of 57 items (no connection to Mr Heinz!), these I feel being somewhat representative of our shopping and DIY activities. This is far, far from exhaustive (we obviously have far too much stuff in our house!). Some items are national name brands (e.g. Branston, makers of pickle and other garnishes), and are shown in single quotes. Tesco, Asda (owned by Wal-Mart), Morrisons, Somerfield and Waitrose are UK supermarket chains, Tesco being the biggest. I couldn't find any Sainsburys items, another supermarket chain, so I guess we don't shop there much! B&Q, Wickes and Homebase are DIY chains. I found just four items that had imperial marking as well as metric - and for only one of them was the quantity a rational imperial quantity (but shown as metric first). However, this is an item we have had in our fridge for a long time, and it is quite likely to have since been repackaged in a rational metric size. The interesting thing is that I really had to hunt for ANYTHING that had an imperial marking - everything IS metric. That said, some of the metric sizes are a bit odd (740 mL, 340 g, etc). But still metric, no imperial shown. I have shown the quantity labelling EXACTLY as it appears on the packaging, errors and all. If you like metric (and we obviously all do, with the exception of Stephen Humphreys), then enjoy!! John F-L -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Garage/workshop B&Q 'Zorbo' halogen light fixture - base 50 cm long, projection 70 cm long Wickes quick drying varnish - 1 Litre B&Q bevelled edge mirror - 600 mm x 600 mm (24" x 24" approx.) 4mm thick 3.6kg weight Wickes marking chalk - 50g/1.75oz Homebase pine cladding - 94mm x 9mm, Length = 2.4metre B&Q Plastic angle - 2400 x 12 x 12 B&Q Chamferred architrave [wood door trim in US-speak] - 15mm x 45mm x 2.1M [that is an upper case M] Wickes pine Scotia moulding - 15 x 15 x 2400 Wickes silicone sealant - 310 ml B&Q foam/rubber draft excluder - 15mm x 5.1m Halfords windscreen [windshield in US-speak] washer antifreeze concentrate - 2 Litres (makes up to 5 Litres of washer fluid) Food and kitchen Specialty coffee for cafetierres, package of 8 boxes, each box - 75g/2.65oz Morrisons pre-packed bacon - 250 g 'Natures Best' cod liver oil - 300ml 'Pure' non-dairy soya spread - 500g 'Whole Foods' pear & apple spread - 227g/8oz 'Bay Tree' Christmas marmalade - 340g Morrisons pre-wrapped individually priced broccoli - 0.370 kg [and priced at 192p/kg] Morrisons pre-packaged mozzarella cheese - 200g Evian bottled water - 1l [cursive l] Tesco bottled water - 5 Litres Quaker instant porridge oats - 1 kg Tesco grapefruit juice - 1 Litre 'Veggie Wash' fruit and vegetable wash - 500ml Tesco frozen peas - 1 kg 'Julian Graves' rice crackers - 250g Somerfield custard powder - 300 g 'Amoy' soy sauce - 250ml 'Young's' 5 Coley Fillets (frozen) - 500 g 'Branston' canned spaghetti Bolognese - 410 g 'Lindt' Dark Chocolate - 100 g Tesco kitchen foil - 10 metres, 30cm wide approx. Waitrose syrup - 740ml 'Birds Eye' petis pois - 750g Cleaners/laundry 'Flash' cleaning spray - 500 ml 'Fairy' washing up liquid - 500ml Tesco dishwasher powder - 3 kg Tesco fabric conditioner - 1 Litre 'Finish' dishwasher salt - 2 kg Asda dishwasher rinse aid - 250 ml Boots [national chemist/drugstore chain] sterilising liquid - 600 ml Somerfield bathroom spray cleaner - 500 ml 'Domestos' spray cleaner - 500ml 'Delta' carper cleaner refill - 500ml 'Ecover' ecological laundry detergent - 1,5 L 'Vanish' laundry spray treatment - 500ml Asda toilet cleanser - 500ml 'Shower Shine' shower cleaner - Big 1 Litre Value for the price of 750ml Bathroom Tesco shaving foam - 250 ml RightGuard stick deodorant - 50 g 'Nivea' face wash - 30 ml L'Oreal shampoo/conditioner - 250ml 'Imperial Leather' 4-pack bar soap - 4 x 125g 'Wella' hair toner - 14ml 'Boots' SPF15 suntan lotion - 200 ml 'Nivea' spray deodorant - 92g/150ml Tesco herbal shampoo - 750ml Windows Live Messenger just got better. 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