[volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured?

2015-06-05 Thread Jan Fredriksson
I saw the other day a Keithley 2636B SMU which has 0.1fA resolution @ 10uV in a "normal" Keithley DMM box size. Keithley also have some systems with external amps that go down even further, to tens of atto-Amp regions. Even the old HP resolves down to 1fA. It made me curious. Dear list: What's th

Re: [volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured?

2015-06-05 Thread MARVIN
A simplest model is RC integration. http://electronicdesign.com/test-amp-measurement/whats-all-femtoampere-stuff-anyhow - Original Message - Subject: [volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured? I saw the other day a Keithley 2636B SMU which has 0.1fA resolution @ 10uV in a "n

Re: [volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured?

2015-06-05 Thread Ed Breya
With modern digital readout meters, this can be very misleading in terms of actual useable capability. In this case, using the specified highest sensitivity 100 pA range, and six digits of digital resolution, gives E-10 A/E6 or E-16 A, which is 100 aA for the last digit. But, looking at the noi

Re: [volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured?

2015-06-05 Thread Russ Ramirez
I'll only add two things. You can believe Keithley's specs for equipment made prior to their acquisition by Danaher in 2010 or so. You also have to make these measurements under controlled conditions; for example, but using a Triax connected Faraday cage, not ever touching what you are measuring be

Re: [volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured?

2015-06-05 Thread MARVIN
A simpler representation. http://www.edn.com/design/other/4381004/Femtoamp-fA-measurements Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured? A simplest model is RC integration. http://electronicdesign.com/test-amp-measurement/whats-all-femtoampere-stuff-anyhow

Re: [volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured?

2015-06-05 Thread John Phillips
in the Flintstones era you would have a bird count the electrons as they flow down the wire. On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 10:23 AM, MARVIN wrote: > A simpler representation. > > http://www.edn.com/design/other/4381004/Femtoamp-fA-measurements > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] How are f

Re: [volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured?

2015-06-06 Thread Jan Fredriksson
As described, the pico-femto amp meters are "pass-through", current goes in AND out, at 10uV burden voltage. They are explicitly not shunt and as far as I understand, can't be trans-impedance amplifiers either. The very lowest leakage OP-amp I know of, LMP7721 is rated 3 fA typ, with a specified l

Re: [volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured?

2015-06-06 Thread John Devereux
Jan Fredriksson writes: > As described, the pico-femto amp meters are "pass-through", current > goes in AND out, at 10uV burden voltage. They are explicitly not shunt > and as far as I understand, can't be trans-impedance amplifiers > either. > > The very lowest leakage OP-amp I know of, LMP7721

Re: [volt-nuts] How are femto-amps measured?

2015-06-06 Thread Ed Breya
Yes, the input DC bias current can be compensated for, as long as it doesn't change too quickly, or isn't too big to make the input amplifier circuits run out of dynamic range. In a digital meter environment, all sorts of auto-zeroing and multi-sloping things and digital signal processing can b