Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Dave-- Your right. I got the P's mixed up. Bob -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 1:13 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) In reply to Bob Cook's message of Sat, 26 Mar 2016 12:20:53 -0700:

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to Bob Cook's message of Sat, 26 Mar 2016 12:20:53 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Dave-- > >Puthoff I think made a machine that produced a gravity pulse, which displaced >things at a distance and apparently traveled at a velocity greater than >light—I think it was reported to be 64 times c. I thin

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

its ability to carry momentum per the Puthoff reports. Bob Cook From: David Roberson Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 2:15 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) It is true that the car will eventually come to a rest in its reference frame once its fuel is

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

rocket then all of the original energy and mass can be accounted for in the exhaust. Nothing vanishes. Dave -Original Message- From: H LV To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2016 12:36 pm Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) Relative to its initial state it has gained

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Question:- "Why would gravity warp spacetime, but not electric and magnetic fields? According to Axil and Fran, they warp spacetime big time. (SPPs) ;)" *http://arxiv.org/pdf/1510.08377.pdf * *"Starting from a five dimensional Kaluza-Klein theory, which is

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to Bob Cook's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:00:38 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Robin's example of the electric car is different than the EM drive since it >allows the evaluation of the conservation of momentum. The road increases >its momentum in the opposite direction the car does. In the EM

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to Bob Cook's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2016 21:36:33 -0700: Hi, [snip] >So the vacuum's momentum changes in the opposite direction of the increased >momentum of the ship. The issue is COM in my mind, not an absolute increase >in momentum. That suggests momentum is not conserved. > >bob

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to Eric Walker's message of Fri, 18 Mar 2016 22:20:20 -0500: Hi, [snip] >On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, wrote: > >If the presence of an object warps spacetime (General Relativity), then >> something must be present to warp? >> > >General relativity provides a unified description of gra

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

, 2016 3:42 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) People riding in a Emdrive spaceship could compare their motion to background stars before and after the acceleration to determine how much their speed has changed. Or they could use an onboard accelerometer to

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

ERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) In reply to David Roberson's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:58:43 -0400: Hi, [snip] Of course the EM drive ship that remains in this extreme case(actually nothing at all if zero exhaust is present) is at rest which means it has zero kinetic energy relative

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to David Roberson's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:58:43 -0400: Hi, [snip] >Of course the EM drive ship that remains in this extreme case(actually nothing >at all if zero exhaust is present) is at rest which means it has zero kinetic >energy relative to itself. Again, this is not a pro

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

ve > > > > -Original Message- > From: H LV > To: vortex-l > Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2016 12:36 pm > Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) > > Relative to its initial state it has gained kinetic energy. If the > Emdrive needs and external source of energy t

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:58 AM, David Roberson wrote: A normal rocket obeys CoE and CoM whereas the EM Drive ship does not. > I don't think this conclusion has been established yet. If it can be shown that the EM drive emits its mass in the form of > radiation out the exhaust then all is well

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Bob Cook wrote: If its neutrinos, then they would seem to have some mass that is magnified > by their high velocity and special relativity. > I don't think it is necessary that the neutrinos be relativistic, although surely they will be. I do not know that a rel

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

March 17, 2016 5:43 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) In reply to Bob Cook's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:00:38 -0700: Hi, [snip] Robin's example of the electric car is different than the EM drive since it allows the evaluation of the conservat

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

collide with targets and are stopped? Bob Cook From: Eric Walker Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 3:56 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:58 AM, David Roberson wrote: A normal rocket obeys CoE and CoM whereas the EM Drive

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to David Roberson's message of Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:19:13 -0400: Hi, [snip] >When might somehow be important but if you take the process to the extreme you >get a result that doesn't make any sense. For example, if the spaceship >continues to use up its mass in a constant acceleration p

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

rm of measurable reaction mass equivalent is involved. Dave -Original Message- From: mixent To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2016 4:26 pm Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) In reply to David Roberson's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:58:43 -0400: Hi, [snip]

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to David Roberson's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:15:16 -0400: Hi, [snip] >You should note that the car we are discussing is not capable of accelerating >unless it is using a road or some electromagnetic force that is not terminated >within the car itself. That other object acts as th

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 7:43 PM, wrote: See my reply to David. Everyone is making the assumption that a force can > only > act against another object, because that has always been our experience. > This > may be the first tangible experience of a force acting against the vacuum > itself, rather t

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to Roarty, Francis X's message of Fri, 18 Mar 2016 10:23:12 +: Hi, [snip] >Which takes something physically present to do the warping…ok if it can remain >spatially fixed but I suspect it will have to dilate on temporal axis to >maintain equal and opposite action across frames. If

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to Eric Walker's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2016 20:59:12 -0500: Hi, [snip] >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 7:43 PM, wrote: > >See my reply to David. Everyone is making the assumption that a force can >> only >> act against another object, because that has always been our experience. >> This >> may

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 5:23 AM, Roarty, Francis X < francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote: Which takes something physically present to do the warping…ok if it can > remain spatially fixed but I suspect it will have to dilate on temporal > axis to maintain equal and opposite action across frames. > We

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 6:29 PM, wrote: Wasn't there something quoted here not too long ago about laser possibly > revealing a warping in the neighborhood of an operating drive? > I don't remember it, but if there was such a report, I think it would be outside of the realm of what is interesting

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to Eric Walker's message of Fri, 18 Mar 2016 10:05:31 -0500: Hi, [snip] >On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 5:23 AM, Roarty, Francis X < >francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote: > >Which takes something physically present to do the warping…ok if it can >> remain spatially fixed but I suspect it will have

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

all is well. But thus far it is suggested that nothing is performing that function. Dave -Original Message- From: mixent To: vortex-l Sent: Wed, Mar 16, 2016 9:29 pm Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) In reply to David Roberson's message of Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 7:43 PM, mailto:mix...@bigpond.com>> wrote: See my reply to David. Everyone is making the assumption that a force can only act against another object, because that has always been our experience. Th

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

r it is suggested that nothing > is performing that function. > > Dave > > -Original Message- > From: mixent > To: vortex-l > Sent: Wed, Mar 16, 2016 9:29 pm > Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) > > In reply to David Roberson's message of

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:22 PM, wrote: >Does this require that the vacuum be something other than a frictionless > >superfluid? > > Not sure about that (literally). How do you feel about a solid lattice > rather > than a superfluid? > I feel doubtful, although I have no strong opinion. The con

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:19 PM, wrote: If the presence of an object warps spacetime (General Relativity), then > something must be present to warp? > General relativity provides a unified description of gravity and spacetime. The EM Drive makes use first and foremost of the electromagnetic int

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

I wrote: > Another interpretation regarding the EmDrive is that the thrust is > real but the effect (for whatever reason) requires an external source > of electricity. On the plus side the thrust could not be explained > away as an artifact of the electrical forces between the input wires, > but on

RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Tues 3/15/2016 Jones Beene said [snip] Shawyer claims that a standing wave interference pattern is created by geometry, operating frequency path lengths. And he claims that “stress energy of space” is altered by the interference pattern. That sounds a lot like aether.[/snip] I agr

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Another interpretation regarding the EmDrive is that the thrust is real but the effect (for whatever reason) requires an external source of electricity. On the plus side the thrust could not be explained away as an artifact of the electrical forces between the input wires, but on the down side it w

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

g the earlier stage rocket frames are left behind to contribute components to the center of mass equation. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Mar 15, 2016 8:08 am Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) Perhaps "when"

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Perhaps "when" did the mass go answers the question better to explain the spatial imbalance. -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 5:15 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) In reply to Davi

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

I vote for accumulated time dilation that unbalances one of the spatial axii wrt radiation pressure – the geometry and the microwave energy conspire to slightly segregate the vacuum density in the cavity and the radiation path slightly prefers one region of segregation over the other, bouncing a