Attached is a patch that
1. adds a file called BUILD.txt that starts to give some instructions on
how to build vos, including a list of dependencies you can install if
you don'nt want the scons script to try downloading and building stuff.
2. links to libpthread when testing crypto++
vostes
--- Begin Message ---
Dear Qt User:
Nokia is pleased to announce that with the release of Qt 4.5 you will
be able to use Qt under the Lesser General Public License (LGPL)
version 2.1 terms. When released in March 2009, Qt will be made
available under three licensing options: Commercial, LGPL and
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008/pulpit_20081003_005424.html
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Just want to make sure the list still works after changing something...
Reed
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Oops, just noticed that the days of the week are out of order. Should
fix that I guess. But there's an interesting upward trend toward the
middle of the week, then it goes down to drop off on Saturday.
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ht
First two graphs, averages of number of users on the channel.
Not a great gauge of activity or when the best time to be on the
channel, since most of the activity on #vos is just lurking.
Since there's a small number of users, we can look more closely at who
is on when I think. I think cha
Interesting coincidence! Congratulations to you too!
Reed
Braden McDaniel wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 11:51 -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
>> I have a new top priority project that must compete with VOS -- Zephan
>> Isaac was born on Friday at 7:30 PM! Though so far he&#
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 01:47:35PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
>
> Am thinking of switching over to the new website I was working on earlier
> (http://interreality.org:4088), but without the half-assed
Go to http://interreality.org:4088/home
Am thinking of switching over to the new website I was working on earlier
(http://interreality.org:4088), but without the half-assed
background image. Would be nice to create a nicer one but don't have time.
I'll also do an editing and clarity pass to try to improve whatever wording I
can, and f
A tool that combines a 3D representation of a map or graph, and different views
for documents etc. in the tree.
http://www.informationtamers.com/Personal-journey-in-information-management.html
Second page starts talking about visual representations.
Reed
--
http://interreality.org/~reed
__
This is about schemas for describing data shared between applications, was
developed as part of WinFS for Longhorn though this part of it wasn't eventually
actually included in Vista.
I think I can download the full paper if anyone wants it.
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=1247480.12475
We talked a bit on IRC but wanted to respond here too.
I think it can be summarized briefly like this, I think:
In S4, Vobjects had an ordered list of named child links to other
Vobjects, one type of which was a Property. In the proposal, Vobjects
have an unordered set of named properties, one
http://www.vrmag.org/speedracer/
When they say "VR", at least in the John Gaeta interview, I think they
are really referring to panoramic images projected on the inside of a
sphere, and you view it from the center and rotate to view different
parts of the image.
The interview starts down a w
I'm worried about introducing yet more complexity into S5. You know that this is
a big concern of mine.
What is the exact overhead for having entries in the child list for embedded
properties? You need a contextual name, and you need the object. The list
itself stores the position value. The
In other words, I sort of imagined it like this:
class Entity
{
handleMessage();
set parents;
string url;
}
class Link
{
string cname;
int pos;
Entity *child;
Entity *parent;
}
class Vobject : Entity
{
list children;
vector embeddedProperties;
list components;
etc.
}
Properties as child vobjects is too useful to get rid of I think. If
properties are always embedded, then you can't have two vobjects share a
property, which is one of the most important features of VOS. They also can't
be remote for whatever reason, and you can't use the normal
Vobject/Metaobj
I've started putting together a new website in (s4) hypervos at
http://interreality.org:4088/home.
It's simplified from the current site, and has less info. As we update things
like documentation for S5 and make releases, we can expand the site. I make a
wiki page (DraftDocs) that links to som
I fixed the wiki permissions so that anyone who is logged in should be able to
edit pages. Click the "login" link at the top. If you don't have a login yet,
follow the instructions, though it's a bit strange. You have to go to
UserPreferences, fill in the form (enter your password twice, ignore
Well, I've been reading the docs for Qt4 and experimenting with the
example programs they provide, and I'm leaning towards it as a toolkit.
Does anyone have any input on choosing a toolkit?
* Qt4 looks nice, even in Gnome-- much better than Qt3 did
* It has some nice built in widgets and f
Braden McDaniel wrote:
>> http://interreality.org/wiki/ChoosingAGUIToolkit
>
> GTK+'s licence is LGPL, not GPL.
>
> Also, GTK+ can interact with OpenGL via GtkGLExt.
>
> Also, with regard to the language issue, Gtkmm is worth pointing out.
> Gtkmm is a very high quality modern C++-aware C++ wrap
I was under the impression that, for the most part, you are always going
to be working through Wrapper objects. Is this true?
>> I still think it would be easier for people to use VOS if the wrapper
>> classes had "plain" names, and the thing being wrapped had the funny
>> name. E.g.
>>
>
I've updated http://interreality.org/wiki/S5 with this information.
Peter, can you please check it and fix it if anything is inaccurate? I
did elide some of the minor details, just in the interest of clarity.
Some minor comments below about naming things to be less confusing to
think about if
Peter Amstutz wrote:
> The idea is to set up "Template" vobjects which have TemplateParameters
> which are stand-ins for links other objects and are substituted when you
> actually create a template instance. The "TemplateInstance" vobject
> links to the template and some set of parameters, an
Lalo Martins wrote:
> So. How it works is basically... MVC. There is a View Context class
> called WebRequest. (This is in libvos, in case someone wants to write
> another implementation of hypervos, say, stand-alone, IIS, whatever;
Why is this in libvos? It should be in a seperate library.
Also what is the rationale behind all the stuff in the IO namespace?
Is'nt it just a wrapper around standard C++ io?
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What is the "Extension Manager"? (WHat's an ExtensionManagerWrapper?)
What is a Service Manager (site.getServiceManager)?
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Reed Hedges wrote:
> Lalo Martins wrote:
>> Also spracht Reed Hedges (Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:23:53 -0500):
>>> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:13:14PM +, Lalo Martins wrote:
>>>> hypervos is already alive and kicking in the form of an Apache mod_vos;
>
> Is
Lalo, What are fragments and portlets?
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Lalo Martins wrote:
> Also spracht Reed Hedges (Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:23:53 -0500):
>> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:13:14PM +, Lalo Martins wrote:
>>> hypervos is already alive and kicking in the form of an Apache mod_vos;
Is the src/app/mod_vos directory in bz
I meant to send a message about this a while ago, but life has
intervened recently.
Anyway, here are my current thoughts on what to do with Hypervos.
I'm still digesting Lalo's plans, need to reread it or talk to you in
IRC Lalo. For one thing, I'm not sure I fully understand the general
nee
Original Message
Subject:[liblf-dev] C++0x developments
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:47:36 -0500
From: Bjorn Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hey all,
I just wanted to update everyone on the latest developments i
reed wrote:
>
> I updated the "Road Map" page on the Wiki to reflect S5 plans. Pete, please
> correct it if it's a bit off. This is just a general guideline, we don't
> really know yet when the first S5 release will be, or whether it will be a
> "1.0" release or a beta or testing prerelease t
Reed Hedges wrote:
> Here are two ideas I had for a new website design. Both are rough sketches.
> \
> 2. http://interreality.org/~reed/tmp/iro/index2.html
I made a few small changes to this one, trying a different background
image (the branches one is just to show the concept, it
Lalo Martins wrote:
> I like #1. When I did a mockup a long long time ago, I went with a
> similar idea, and I think it's still valid; the metaphor being that
> you're looking at a few "flat" widgets floating in a 3d space.
The main thing I don't like is it's too dark and black, which might
sc
Karsten Otto wrote:
> Hi Reed,
>
> Nice work! Regarding the boxes in #1, is there any way to make the
> round corners anti-aliased? It looks a bit weird in contrast to to
> the smooth backgroudn image and the anti-aliased VOS logo.
Yeah. The round corners are a hack using little tiny colored
> The internal code changes are to use a more general event system for UI and
> tool
> actions, and make all the UI infrastructure accessible and customizable from
> Python.
>
Here's more
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/SundayMeetingAgenda/December_23rd_2007
http://wiki.blender.o
Here's Ton talking about some changes to the Blender UI code:
http://www.blendernation.com/2008/02/18/the-future-of-blender/
Our UI client ideas are somewhat similar to the kind of things Blender does. If
they make the code reusable and general enough, it's possible that we could even
use it to
I made the divs a bit transparent in #1. I think they're too boring though,
maybe need a bit more bubbliness? (Or is that too "Web 2.0"? :) Or more of a
border?
I just threw together the background images in blender, but I do like having
them look more polygonated and emphasising that they are 3
Here are two ideas I had for a new website design. Both are rough sketches.
1. http://interreality.org/~reed/tmp/iro/index.html
2. http://interreality.org/~reed/tmp/iro/index2.html
Thoughts, ideas?
Reed
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On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:13:14PM +, Lalo Martins wrote:
> hypervos is already alive and kicking in the form of an Apache mod_vos;
Ack! Why didn't you email the list! I've been adding stuff to S4 hypervos (and
intend to port them to
S5!) And I have many plans for further development (see H
Croquet is very cool. I know Pete and I have been following it and reading about
it since we started VOS. I don't know if its details have influenced our design
much, but some the end goals and features are similar.
A lot about it is not documented, as far as I can tell. It's all is Squeak,
wh
Yeah, I think we should push and see how effectively we can really use
VOS for and develop tools and practices for that.
For example, if we're working on the UI client and want to put the
available types in a menu. You could write a for loop that goes through
the types and puts each thing in
In VOS it in fact would be easy to build a little tree of the types with
different names to make them easier for people to work with, while
keeping their real names hidden.
So you can make an object like "/t" and select out the specific top
level versions used from the containers ("namespaces
Lalo Martins wrote:
> AIUI from IRC conversations, the site IDs won't actually be visible to
> the application programmer later on; we'll deal only with IDs like "/vos/
> core/StringProperty". (I'm not sure about the code namespaces, but I
> hope some simplification is intended there too ;-) )
Can this be fixed, or is there a way to disable sitetest, or have scons
skip it or something?
g++ -o debug/build/src/test/sitetest.o -c -g -Wall
-Idebug/thirdparty/stage/include -Idebug/stage/include src/test/sitetest.cc
src/test/sitetest.cc: In function 'void sitetest_verify_signature()':
src
The new type IDs are still bothering me a bit too (among other things,
like the code namespaces). A huge advantage of the old user-invented
type names is that they were natural to understand and easy to remember.
We're going to have to do a lot of cutting and pasting, and when we
get one d
Started listing S5 changes at:
http://interreality.org/wiki/S5
http://interreality.org/wiki/ChangesToA3dl
Will fill them in a bit as I go through the vos-d archives and talk to
Pete more.
Reed
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And just a general impression... S5 is becoming really complex and
daunting (and sophisticated, and hopefully very powerful) piece of
software. But this means that we're going to need to put a *lot* of
work in documenting, tutorials, as well as just polishing and refining
the API itself, to m
I'm going through S5 a bit more deeply now.
Pete, can you give a summary explanation of these new classes/concepts,
and how you use them, what they do, etc.
What are:
ComponentWrapper
Promise
Status (used with a Promise it seems?)
IVobject
VobjectImpl
ImplementationWrapper
For some reason I ended up at ohloh.net so I updated the VOS entry a
bit. Unfortunately it doesn't support BZR (or tarballs even) so it can't
do analysis on repository activity or contributors.
http://www.ohloh.net/projects/3930
Reed
--
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___
Thanks for writing up your thoughts. How important do you think it is to define
specific interfaces for MVC?
One thing I started doing for S4 was a library called "vos toolbox" that as a
set of tools, mostly in the form of listener classes and metaobject classes,
that can be used to translate ev
On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 06:01:30PM +, Lalo Martins wrote:
> Also spracht Reed Hedges (Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:57:10 -0500):
> > Oh, ok, then my sketch is not really SOD, just a similar thing. Sorry
> > for apropriating the name. I didn't know that you implemented your
> >
artins wrote:
> Also spracht Reed Hedges (Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:46:37 -0500):
> > Or you could use any file format for Vobjects, even COD. Back in S4 I
> > sketched out a possible curly-bracket format called "SOD" I think
> > (don't remember it exactly anymore tho
Karsten Otto wrote:
> Am 05.12.2007 um 22:13 schrieb Peter Amstutz:
>>> The interface description seems to slowly approach WSDL Land... Have
>>> you considered some shorthand syntax to free a developer of all the
>>> XML clutter? Or do you envision GUI-based development tools for this
>>> (really
Karsten Otto wrote:
> Ok, I see. But this implies there could be more servers than just
> one, each hosting a replica. Which one do I contact for updates? With
> VOP/VIP URLs this was straightforward, but please remind me again,
> how do I contact a vos:0011223344... key-based site? Is there
I don't know about Karsten, but the reason I have a knee-jerk reaction
against suffixes like "Wrapper" is that it just feels like cruft, based
on other systems where the word had no consistent meaning, at least from
a user's perspective, it just seemed a hack to extend an API or
facilitate its
We should also include at this point a reminder of why there's a code
generator.
If I understand things correctly, the goal is to use the code generator to
(a) generate code for different programming languages
(b) make it easier for users to generate MetaObject (now called Component)
wrapper
* Is wrapper locking local or remote?
> vosIO::CppStdInputStreamWrapper
inpVobj(factory.create(getLocalHost(),
> vosIO::CppStdInputStreamImpl::getClassImplementation()));
Can you explain this a bit more? what is getClassImplementation() and
why do you pass its result (wha
Well, we don't want to take on all the baggage that other "Component systems"
have.
But then again, we're just talking about naming a class here, not the whole
system.
Reed
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On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 11:16:16AM -0500, Peter Amstutz wrote:
> "Part" is even more generic/vague than component
True, but it's not used very often in software (IME at least).
Component does imply that it could be provided by a plugin module, and
is dynamic, both of which are attributes of MetaO
I guess it's a Decorator pattern, which other people might be familiar with
from the
Design Patterns books, so could be named after that. Though it's an unfortunate
name, calling MetaObjects "Decorations" would kind of trivialize them :) I
wonder where they came up with that name.
Reed
Component is generic, and also recalls COM etc.
How about:
Part
Facet
Role
Type
Fragment
Trait
What exactly *is* a metaobject? It's a constituent Vobject that's part of a
real Vobject, and which implements a facet or part of that Vobject, probably
corresponding to a type. It implements part o
Here are some ideas I had on revamping the web site.
Graphic Design
--
* Change the background to white or another light color. Maybe change
the main content area to a different shade too, rather than current grey.
* A set of background/side illustrations, that convey some of the m
Can you comment on this Peter?
Let's say I want a set of listeners attached to an object to be invoked in
order. Let's say that both listeners live on the same local site (process) and
maybe are both associated with the same vobject. Will there be a way to do this
in S5? What if the listeners ar
Just thought of this: One thing that a remote app. might want to customize about
the UI is how some things are labeled, or it might want to add special
informational labels/text blocks/tooltips/bubbles/whatever.
Reed
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On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 05:16:27PM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote:
> Notes from some initial discussion of the interreality 3d interface.
> Participants: winterk, zaharazod, tetron
>
> - Should be more like "stuff people expect"
> - Splitting and merging panels is likely to confuse casual
> users
Here's an RSS feed for the vos-announce form/mailing list:
http://interreality.org/announce.rss
(actually, it's an alias for the RSS feed that the forum software generates, but
this abstracts that in case we change forum software or whatever. vos-d also has
an rss feed, just go to its forum
I think it would be ok to just black it out (e.g. "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"). It's
not that useful to have email
addresses visible, this is just an artifact of how some email clients do
replies.
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 11:07:22AM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote:
> Posted at: http://interreality.org/phoru
Nope. You can see here: http://interreality.org/phorum/read.php?2,88
Reed
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 02:43:08PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> I hope the mail addresses are not open readable in forum then, or we might
> get a lot of spam here soon?
>
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On Wed, Oct 17, 2007 at 02:53:49AM +, Lalo Martins wrote:
> Also spracht Reed Hedges (Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:24:27 -0400):
> >> - type list
> >> - child list
> >> - payload, if any (eg properties)
> >> - security capabilities
> >
> > - pare
This sounds really good. Having replication and clustering will be
really important as we move forward. It will let us do all kinds of
scaling and load distribution, and even manage things like internal,
in-development or draft datasets that get published to a public site
when ready... lots o
Brief oververview of Englebarts vision and ideas, talking to folks at Google.
http://youtube.com/w/?v=xQx-tuW9A4Q
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Pete has a Mac so maybe he can help.
I guess you have neither readline nor termios, so it's trying to use
getch() from curses. Can you post the 'config.log' file that should have
been created in the main build directory?
Can you grep for the getch() function somewhere, it should be in
curses.
Hi Jake, I just removed that from Makefile.am. Update from bzr and try again.
What version of automake do you have?
Reed
On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 09:34:24PM -0600, Jake Franklin wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm attempting to use the vos-bootstrap script to build VOS. I've
> installed already installed ba
> 5) Come up with some milestones and prioritize development. The
> strategy will probably be to code enough of the VOS framework to support
> concurrent development of higher level pieces like A3DL, and to start
> putting some meat on the bones of the UI prototype. This may be
> something l
I've been writing some code that makes some objects fly around and Ken's
interpolation code makes it look nice and smooth. However, in doing so
I experimented a bit with position update frequency, wondering what the
slowest rate I could use is, especially when the velocity I was trying
to sh
ust
the menu subitems
Anyone tried this script recently? Have any problems that need to be
fixed or missing features added?
In a little while I'll consolidate possible tasks for 0.24 and we can
prioritize them (we probably won't be able to do all of them, we ought
to release 0.24 pretty
It doesn't have to be in depth about how it works, just shows what it does and
doesn't do (i.e. it just wraps the core vobject and property api, right, not all
the metaobjects [yet]?) and how to go about trying to use it, maybe give some
examples. How do you build it? (run setup.py?)
Reed
> >
Lalo Martins wrote:
> Yes. There is already a prototype s5-scripting branch somewhere to match
> Peter's prototype s5 branch, and it looks absolutely beautiful, although
Is it sftp://interreality.org/home/bzroot/s5-scripting/libs/vos/python?
Do you have any documentation or notes you can add l
scripting? (which would
be basically a dead end.)
Reed
Lalo Martins wrote:
> Also spracht Reed Hedges (Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:58:40 -0400):
>> What is the state of the S4 scripting branch
>> (http://interreality.org/home/bzroot/s4-scripting)? Does the Python
>> interface wor
On Fri, Jun 29, 2007 at 08:05:37AM -0600, S Mattison wrote:
> I can fall through the map. =P
Well maybe you need a floor! :)
> Well, it's not difficult when there are no invisible bounding boxes
> holding me on.
Actually it's several things
1. Bounds in the world that terangreal can check
On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 12:29:43PM +0200, Karsten Otto wrote:
> This sounds like a radical redesign... so far we had a single local
> vobject acting as a sequencer for multiple remote vobjects.
> Obviously, you have something new in mind. Please tell us more :-)
My feeling is that this would b
I think we do need modes for keybindings, and I like the general tool idea.
The GUI should not neccesarily be directly mapped to mode.n ia fixed
configuration though. Instead, there should be a set of GUI elements (side
panes, etc.) for each mode, but they should be flexible in that you can b
Are there any bugs or real defects in Ter'Angreal or VOS? I know of two, don't
know if we should fix them:
* Avatar settings (model/skin) aren't saved (really just an unimplemented
feature)
* Objects aren't always removed from the world
Something to test is whether all A3DL property/object
On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 10:38:37AM -0400, Andrew Robbins wrote:
> I have also been thinking a great deal
> about tables, tags, trees, and types (talk about illiteration!). The
> reason I've been thinking so much about them is that every once in
> awhile, I'll come up with a new way of converting
What is the state of the S4 scripting branch
(http://interreality.org/home/bzroot/s4-scripting)? Does the Python interface
work?
Thinking about what we should try to include in 0.24 (codename s4 swan song).
Reed
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Chris is referring here to a proposal for the X3D format/language (new
version of VRML) to add the sensor nodes mentioned, by the way.
Reed
chris wrote:
> Hi, just a few comments on other status that may interest.
> I have been testing tcp/ip networking with an implementation of the network
>
On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 10:02:03PM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 07:31:42PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
> >
> > How do listener notifications fit in with the S5
> > vobject-as-logical-thread idea? I'm thinking specifically about impact
> &g
How do listener notifications fit in with the S5
vobject-as-logical-thread idea? I'm thinking specifically about impact
on ability to scale number of objects that one listener is listening to.
I'm guessing listener notifications are processed same as any other
messages in the vobject's mess
es not and will
probably never use).
Reed
Reed Hedges wrote:
> Was the crystalspace snapshot updated or changed recently? I'm getting
> these errors now trying to build it. Is anyone else or is something
> strange going on with my checkout?
>
__
Was the crystalspace snapshot updated or changed recently? I'm getting
these errors now trying to build it. Is anyone else or is something
strange going on with my checkout?
C++ ./out/linuxx86/debug/libs/csutil/csstring.o
./include/csutil/formatter.h:992: error: non-template
'IEEEFloatManti
On Tue, May 22, 2007 at 09:03:29AM -0700, Ken Taylor wrote:
> I guess my suggestion really comes down to, when in doubt, follow X3D,
> because they're putting a lot of work into making this stuff flexible and
> interoperable :)
Well, not neccesarily. I mean in the data design. Legacy VRML support
In making A3DL we did take some inspiration from VRML. However, VRML
(and X3D) have some aspects that if adopted directly would make A3DL
a bit less efficient or more cumbersome. We have all the structure that
comes from VOS to use. X3D does some stuff just because VRML did it,
and VRML97 does
Reed Hedges wrote:
> The planned S5 features of embedded properties and string pooling ought
> to make it efficient to search for objects on a site by type or name
I mean both object name and contextual name.
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The planned S5 features of embedded properties and string pooling ought
to make it efficient to search for objects on a site by type or name
(due to string pooling), if the shared strings have pointers back to
their vobjects, right? Have you implemented string pooling
yet, or what are your plans
On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 10:18:34AM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote:
> The bigger problem was I was doing something dumb in 0.23, which was the
> code that loads the md2 models for avatars recenters it to make the
> origin the center of the avatar bounding box rather than at the avatar's
> feet.
So
We don't have specific plans for H-anim and VOS. We haven't designed
how jointed, animateable geometry will work in VOS yet. Chris is just
keeping us informed about possible things to do (thanks Chris) I think.
At this point, we plan on having a general VRML server for VOS that
exposes a running
Yeah, so his ideas cut accross all kinds of layers and aspects of
networking. so I don't think VOS can be "THE" solution to the problems
he explains, but it can provide a few key tools. Namely it can be a data
storage system, both for originals, and replicated copies, and for
store-and-forward,
Yes, only some things would be versioned, or have different policies as
Lalo suggests.
Yes, child linking has to be preserved correctly. I think we can
basically take an object's child list as part of its state. When you
make a new version you might change those, or copy them whole from the
origi
I guess each copy, whether changed or not, should have a pointer to its
original. I wonder if any vobject version should not have it's
versions "inside" it, but simply have a pointer to it's predecessor (or
the other way around, an object has links to all its derivatives). Then
you can have dif
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