Yes Stephen,
CTRL plus + increases the size of all faces, but doesn't explain why FF
interprets size '3' in different ways.These are in the HTML, so it isn't
a css parent thing. IE interprets all '3's the same.
It looks as though it is only on this page which is regularly changed, but
only
-Original Message-
From: Joseph Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 10:01 PM
To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com
Subject: Re: [wdvltalk] Font size in Firefox - drat!
Yes Stephen,
CTRL plus + increases the size of all faces, but doesn't explain why FF
interprets
Oh, is there nothing simple?
Thanks drew, for the research. This is a list eZine that is also put on a
web page. I have made a nice easy cut and paste operation of it. Now
that FF is getting big I will have to follow through, I suppose.
Just haven't been getting down to anything for a
Excellent catch on the pre tag, Drew! I wouldn't have thought to look
for that and I didn't do any really meaningful hunting around... hitting
ctrl + 0 reset the font-size to readable for me, so I stopped there.
So... I think this whole thing begs another question. What is the
proper way to
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Caudill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:57 AM
To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com
Subject: Re: [wdvltalk] Font size in Firefox - drat!
Excellent catch on the pre tag, Drew! I wouldn't have thought to look for
that and I didn't
-Original Message-
From: Joseph Harris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:09 AM
To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com
Subject: Re: [wdvltalk] Font size in Firefox - drat!
Oh, is there nothing simple?
Thanks drew, for the research. This is a list eZine that is also
Nice thinking and development of the problem Stephen. But from a poet's
eye view it is all downhill! With pre, having already written the darn
poem and formatted it in word processing (text or special) without breaking
into a sweat, there is nothing easier than cutting and pasting.
To have
As long as you use a doctype that supports the tag then it will continue to
work. So using HTML 4.01 or XHTML 1.0 Transitional and not something such as
XHTML 1.1 Strict should keep the pre tag working quite nicely.
Remember if you don't like the default styling you can always use CSS to
change
Trusz, Andrew wrote:
Thanks, obscurantist minutiae is my specialty.
I've seen discussion which use all the methods you cited, Stephen. These
says, the definition list seems to be the favorite dumping ground for
everything. Although how you can use a definition to do a poem is
conceptually beyond
Joseph,
FWIW, I intensely dislike the way many browsers display code in a smaller
moonscape font. I don't mind the smaller size font. As a result on any site
I may use the code tag I'll specify the font size in my stylesheet.
Cheryl D. Wise
Certified Professional Web Developer
Microsoft
i haven't been really paying attention to the font size in firefox thread, but
there was some discussion of tags for poetry?
what's wrong with this markup --
pI have seen them riding seaward on the waves
br /Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
br /When the wind blows the water white
I should have noted that there is a perfectly valid CSS method of replacing
the pre tags in doctypes that deprecate the pre tag. It is:
.poem {
white-space: pre;
}
Cheryl D. Wise
Certified Professional Web Developer
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://wiserways.com
The WDVL
Scott:
Thanks for the links. This is the only time I've encountered the issue but a
heads up on this sort of thing is great for the future.
Cheryl:
When ultimately the design I posted goes live with PHP generated content
I'll probably end up saving a few bytes here and there removing a lot of
T.S. Eliot. Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock
I believe the original poster, having gone to a lot of effort to get the poem
looking 'just right' in a word processing program, did not want to have to
basically start over by using br tags when pre/pre allowed simple 'cut
and paste'.
Malcolm
-Original Message-
From: Cheryl D Wise [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:50 PM
To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com
Subject: RE: [wdvltalk] Font size in Firefox - drat!
I should have noted that there is a perfectly valid CSS method of replacing
the pre tags in
-Original Message-
i haven't been really paying attention to the font size in firefox thread,
but there was some discussion of tags for poetry?
what's wrong with this markup --
pI have seen them riding seaward on the waves br /Combing the white hair
of the waves blown back br /When
Drew,
Speaking strictly semantically, I would think that since the order of
the lines is implicit to the text's meaning, that an ordered list would
be most appropriate... regardless of how non-visual or visual user
agents may interpret it.
With visual user agents, as in my example, you simply
Nothing wrong with the markup
unless
the poem
were
written
like this
sorry, drew, maybe i'm not getting it, but the markup for that would be
p unless
br /the poem
br /were
br /written
br /like this
oh, did you perhaps have some white space formatting there?
ironic,
Patrick,
I have just tried putting the charset meta in but it does not appear to
make a difference, same thing with doctype transitional 4.0.
Having a closer look at the results in firefox I was just beginnning to
accept the question of block space being the decider -- but then I saw the
Good call on changing the subject line... def got derailed from it's
initial post subject. I'll jump on in here.
I don't know if you followed through the other thread much, but the
markup you provide below was discussed as well. Personally, the br/'s
just gimme the willies. I haven't
Sorry for derailing your thread earlier Joe.
Have you tried styling it as Cheryl suggested?
pre{
font: normal .9em Courier New, Courier, monospace;
}
place that rule in your spwnewheads.CSS file and you should be golden.
hth,
Stephen
Joseph Harris wrote:
Patrick,
I have just tried putting the
So... to quote myself:
I would think that since the order of the lines is implicit to the
text's meaning, that an ordered list would be most appropriate...
yeah, but you could say the same for anything, for example the sentences in a
typical paragraph -- mix their order around and the
Coming to the more general discussion of mark-up for poetry, songs, blank
verse, sonnets and, most particularly, free verse, I think Malcolm has
understood the matter most perfectly. Having word-processed to the perfect
layout there is no better method than cut and paste into a pre.
Cheryl has
Hmm,
How are the poems being stored? Is it directly in a html file or can they be
processed before being diplayed? If you could do some processing on the file
then perhaps you could write a script to replace all the new lines with
br/ and all the spaces with 'hard' spaces and then wrap the whole
rudy wrote:
what exactly is your dislike of BR based on?
VooDoo, Mumbo-Jumbo and insect carcases.
- Stephen
The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM
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use the web interface
I missed Cheryl's mail on that. It answers the interpretation for width in
browser of course; but I could not expect poetry to be read in monospace.
It loses flow; rarely is a poem meant to be staccato or jagged, when it
might work.
Often it is hard enough to pick up the metre without the
rudy,
The poet is not technical - you have witnessed me struggle! (Actually I am
quite good at technical stuff but the more I do poetry the less my mind
wants to get back to it!)
Also the poet hates the act of writing down (as with all writers) and
anything, just anything that adds to that
Ah! Now that is an idea John. I do want to put a store on the server for
a random poem interaction. All I have to do now is learn a bit more...
My poems can be: a) intro b) first title c) second title d) intro e) at
last the poem f) tailpiece; only e) is verse, b) and c) are hs. (Mostly
what exactly is your dislike of BR based on?
VooDoo, Mumbo-Jumbo and insect carcases.
i'm sorry, i was asking a serious question
if those are your only objections, may i welcome you into the 21st century,
where they are a piffle
;o)
rudy
The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM
So simply add the font and size of your choice to the .poem class.
Cheryl D. Wise
Certified Professional Web Developer
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://wiserways.com
-Original Message-
From: Joseph Harris
I missed Cheryl's mail on that. It answers the interpretation for width in
Cheryl,
Sorry, I wasn't meaning to be critical. Your suggestion was, I thought, to
deal with FF's peculiarity of interpretation by using monospace. What I was
saying is that I like monospace (in this context) even less than I like the
current problem.
The .poem class is certainly the way I
No, I didn't think you did but somewhere along the line a comment I made in
my original post (the one you think you missed) I said that while the way
pre is rendered is your pet peeve, mine is code with monospaced type that is
smaller than whatever is specified as the page default. I went on to
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 22:23:42 -, John Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hmm,
How are the poems being stored? Is it directly in a html file or can they be
processed before being diplayed? If you could do some processing on the file
then perhaps you could write a script to replace all the new
Hello Joseph,
On Wednesday, January 26, 2005, 4:53:02 PM, you wrote:
JH Table widths are all in percentages, so that should surely not make FF
JH squeeze content!!??!!
No it shouldn't.
JH It is becoming less understandable...
Have you run your files through the W3C validators?
I ran
Piffle! Piffle!!! I know a Macumba Priestess that would happily
prove you wrong. Okay, that's a lie, but still... piffle. really.
I *was* joking though... I was on the way out and found it quick and amusing.
My objections are actually along the lines of the fact that br/ tags
are usually a
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