Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-10 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Dec 9, 2007 7:56 PM, Graham Dumpleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09/12/2007, Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 8, 2007 12:37 AM, Graham Dumpleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 08/12/2007, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * When running under Python 3, servers MUST

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-08 Thread Graham Dumpleton
On 08/12/2007, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * When running under Python 3, servers MUST provide a text stream for wsgi.errors In Python 3, what happens if user code attempts to output to a text stream a byte string? Ie., what would be displayed? Also, if wsgi.errors is a text

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-08 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Dec 8, 2007 12:37 AM, Graham Dumpleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 08/12/2007, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * When running under Python 3, servers MUST provide a text stream for wsgi.errors In Python 3, what happens if user code attempts to output to a text stream a byte

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-07 Thread Alan Kennedy
[Alan] The restriction to iso-8859-1 is really a distraction; iso-8859-1 is used simply as an identity encoding that also enforces that all bytes in the string have a value from 0x00 to 0xff, so that they are suitable for byte-oriented IO. So, in output terms at least, WSGI *is* a

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-07 Thread Alan Kennedy
[Phillip] WSGI already copes, actually. Note that Jython and IronPython have this issue today, and see: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0333/#unicode-issues [James] It would seem very odd, however, for WSGI/python3 to use strings- restricted-to-0xFF for network I/O while everywhere else

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-07 Thread Ian Bicking
Phillip J. Eby wrote: So here are my recommendations so far for the addendum to WSGI *1.0* for Python 3.0 (I expect we can be more strict for WSGI 2.0): * When running under Python 3, applications SHOULD produce bytes output and headers * When running under Python 3, servers and

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-07 Thread Phillip J. Eby
So here are my recommendations so far for the addendum to WSGI *1.0* for Python 3.0 (I expect we can be more strict for WSGI 2.0): * When running under Python 3, applications SHOULD produce bytes output and headers * When running under Python 3, servers and gateways MUST accept strings as

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-07 Thread James Y Knight
On Dec 7, 2007, at 5:46 PM, Andrew Clover wrote: OTOH making the dictionaries reflect the underlying OS's conception of environment variables means users of os.environ and WSGI will have to be able to cope with both bytes and unicode, which would also be a big annoyance. In summary:

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-07 Thread Andrew Clover
James Y Knight wrote: In addition, I know of nobody who actually implements RFC 2047 decoding of http header values...nothing really uses it. (of course I don't know of all implementations out there.) Certainly no browser supports it, which makes the point moot for WSGI. Most browsers, when

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-07 Thread Andrew Clover
Adam Atlas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd say it would be best to only accept `bytes` objects +1. HTTP is inherently byte-based. Any translation between bytes and unicode characters should be done at a higher level, by whatever web framework is living above WSGI. -- And Clover mailto:[EMAIL

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-07 Thread James Y Knight
On Dec 7, 2007, at 2:55 PM, Phillip J. Eby wrote: * When running under Python 3, servers MUST provide CGI HTTP variables as strings, decoded from the headers using HTTP standard encodings (i.e. latin-1 + RFC 2047) (Open question: are there any CGI or WSGI variables that should NOT be

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-06 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 10:13 AM 12/7/2007 +1100, Graham Dumpleton wrote: Has anyone had any thoughts about how WSGI is going to made to work with Python 3? From what I understand about changes in Python 3, the main issue seems to be the removal of string type in its current form. This is an issue as WSGI

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-06 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Dec 6, 2007 4:15 PM, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:13 AM 12/7/2007 +1100, Graham Dumpleton wrote: Has anyone had any thoughts about how WSGI is going to made to work with Python 3? From what I understand about changes in Python 3, the main issue seems to be the removal

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-06 Thread James Y Knight
On Dec 6, 2007, at 7:15 PM, Phillip J. Eby wrote: WSGI already copes, actually. Note that Jython and IronPython have this issue today, and see: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0333/#unicode-issues On Python platforms where the str or StringType type is in fact Unicode-based (e.g.

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-06 Thread Phillip J. Eby
At 08:08 PM 12/6/2007 -0500, Adam Atlas wrote: On 6 Dec 2007, at 18:13, Graham Dumpleton wrote: In Python 3 the default for string type objects will effectively be Unicode. Is WSGI going to be made to somehow cope with that, or will application instead be required to return byte string

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-06 Thread Adam Atlas
On 6 Dec 2007, at 18:13, Graham Dumpleton wrote: In Python 3 the default for string type objects will effectively be Unicode. Is WSGI going to be made to somehow cope with that, or will application instead be required to return byte string objects instead? I'd say it would be best to only

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-06 Thread James Bennett
On Dec 6, 2007 6:15 PM, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WSGI already copes, actually. Note that Jython and IronPython have this issue today, and see: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0333/#unicode-issues I'm glad you brought that up, because it's been bugging me lately. That

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-06 Thread Ian Bicking
Phillip J. Eby wrote: At 08:08 PM 12/6/2007 -0500, Adam Atlas wrote: On 6 Dec 2007, at 18:13, Graham Dumpleton wrote: In Python 3 the default for string type objects will effectively be Unicode. Is WSGI going to be made to somehow cope with that, or will application instead be required to

Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI, Python 3 and Unicode

2007-12-06 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Dec 6, 2007 8:00 PM, Ian Bicking [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phillip J. Eby wrote: At 08:08 PM 12/6/2007 -0500, Adam Atlas wrote: On 6 Dec 2007, at 18:13, Graham Dumpleton wrote: In Python 3 the default for string type objects will effectively be Unicode. Is WSGI going to be made to