On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote:
On Jul 12, 2012, at 1:47 PM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.org
wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Dirk Pranke dpra...@chromium.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.orgwrote:
I don't doubt there are poor comments, both outdated and useless. That's
a reviewing failure. You have simply highlighted the fact that any standard
for comments requires reviewer attention. Hence cost of maintaining
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.orgwrote:
I don't doubt there are poor comments, both outdated and useless.
That's a reviewing failure. You have simply highlighted the fact that any
On Jul 13, 2012, at 5:57 AM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.org wrote:
I'd be happy to add a term to the cost function:
Cost per year with good comments: t_maintainComments * n_patches +
t_understandWithComment * n_engineersNeedingToUnderstand +
t_discoverAndFixBadCommend *
On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:03 AM, Dana Jansens dan...@chromium.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.org
wrote:
I don't doubt there are poor comments, both outdated and useless.
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Dana Jansens dan...@chromium.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Stephen Chenney
schen...@chromium.orgwrote:
I don't doubt there are poor comments, both outdated and useless.
On Jul 13, 2012, at 11:13 AM, Alec Flett alecfl...@chromium.org wrote:
And yes while incorrect behavior can be observed through automated testing,
automated testing does not catch all incorrect behavior, especially
unexpected never-before-seen behavior. Why do you think people write
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Alec Flett alecfl...@chromium.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Stephen Chenney
schen...@chromium.orgwrote:
I don't doubt there are poor comments, both outdated and useless.
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Jul 11, 2012 8:43 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
What's the point of adding this comment when the URL contains all the
information?
On Jul 12, 2012, at 6:50 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
To take an arbitrary example, lets say that while iterating through a
ListHashSet something causes entries to be deleted. Intuitively it seems this
needn't invalidate the iterator, as long as the entry the iterator is
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Alec Flett alecfl...@chromium.org wrote:
I absolutely do not buy that the cost of keeping comments up to date and
the cost of out-of-date comments outweighs the benefits - that has NEVER
been my experience and if anything the benefits of comments grow as the
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.orgwrote:
As several people have shown, it is quite easy to come up with a formula
that shows the cost of maintaining comments is much lower than the cost of
living without.
I object to that conclusion. I've never seen any
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.org
wrote:
As several people have shown, it is quite easy to come up with a formula
that shows the cost of maintaining comments is much lower than the
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Dirk Pranke dpra...@chromium.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.org
wrote:
As several people have shown, it is quite easy to come up with
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.orgwrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Dirk Pranke dpra...@chromium.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Stephen Chenney
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.orgwrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Dirk Pranke dpra...@chromium.orgwrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Jul 12, 2012, at 1:47 PM, Stephen Chenney schen...@chromium.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Dirk Pranke dpra...@chromium.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Stephen Chenney
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:49 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Jul 6, 2012 3:16 PM, Per Bothner per.both...@oracle.com wrote:
On 07/06/2012 02:02 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Per Bothner per.both...@oracle.com
wrote:
You're deluding yourself if you
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 6:54 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 11:49 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Jul 6, 2012 3:16 PM, Per Bothner per.both...@oracle.com wrote:
On 07/06/2012 02:02 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Per
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 6:54 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
Even obvious (to some) concepts like InlineBox have subtleties, for
example not all inline-level elements have inline boxes. An unambiguous
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 8:43 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 6:54 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
Even obvious (to some) concepts like InlineBox have subtleties, for
example
On Jul 11, 2012 8:43 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 6:54 AM, John Mellor joh...@chromium.org wrote:
Even obvious (to some) concepts like InlineBox have subtleties, for
example not all
[(dev time of maintaining comments) + (risk of outdated comments causing
bugs X dev time of fixing resulting bugs)] (dev time gained by more
contributors each being more knowledgable)
No?
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Jul 11, 2012 8:43 AM, John
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Yaar Schnitman y...@chromium.org wrote:
[(dev time of maintaining comments) + (risk of outdated comments causing
bugs X dev time of fixing resulting bugs)] (dev time gained by more
contributors each being more knowledgable)
No?
How did you reach such a
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Yaar Schnitman y...@chromium.org wrote:
[(dev time of maintaining comments) + (risk of outdated comments causing
bugs X dev time of fixing resulting bugs)] (dev time gained by more
On 07/11/2012 09:30 AM, Yaar Schnitman wrote:
[(dev time of maintaining comments) + (risk of outdated comments causing
bugs X dev time of fixing resulting bugs)] (dev time gained by more
contributors each being more knowledgable)
No?
Perhaps:
[(dev time of maintaining comments)
+ (risk of
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Adam Klein ad...@chromium.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Yaar Schnitman y...@chromium.org
wrote:
[(dev time of maintaining comments) + (risk of outdated comments causing
I'm gonna chime in here, as I am 3 months into working on WebKit and the
lack of comments has driven me absolutely crazy. This is a bit of a rant
from a self-declared newbie, but I'm trying to be constructive. I've
contributed to a handful of open and closed source projects. I am trying to
help,
As Eric pointed out, this is completely off the topic of the thread now. So
moving to a new thread.
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Per Bothner per.both...@oracle.com wrote:
On 07/06/2012 11:41 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
Indeed, we try to avoid adding comments as much as possible since
On 07/06/2012 02:02 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
As Eric pointed out, this is completely off the topic of the thread now.
So moving to a new thread.
[Alas we now have 3 new treads ...]
Heavens forbid that someone who actually understands the code should
have
to update the comments
On Jul 6, 2012 3:16 PM, Per Bothner per.both...@oracle.com wrote:
On 07/06/2012 02:02 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
Heavens forbid that someone who actually understands the code should
have
to update the comments once in a while. Better to keep it
inscrutable
so newbies spend all
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
It DOES. Even today, I find many comments (even FIXMEs) that are
out-of-date. Say you add a some comment to a function A because of some odd
behavior of another function B, which A calls. Someone awesome later gets
rid of the
On Jul 6, 2012 4:09 PM, Benjamin Poulain benja...@webkit.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
It DOES. Even today, I find many comments (even FIXMEs) that are
out-of-date. Say you add a some comment to a function A because of some
odd
behavior of
On 07/06/2012 03:49 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
If nothing else
it's a useful sanity check: If something changes enough that you need to
change a comment, that suggests it's a good thing to take the time to
think through the implications well enough to write them down.
We do that in change logs.
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 4:54 PM, Per Bothner per.both...@oracle.com wrote:
On 07/06/2012 03:49 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
If nothing else
it's a useful sanity check: If something changes enough that you need to
change a comment, that suggests it's a good thing to take the time to
think through
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 4:54 PM, Per Bothner per.both...@oracle.comwrote:
On 07/06/2012 03:49 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
If nothing else
it's a useful sanity check: If something changes enough that you need to
change a
On 07/06/2012 08:23 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
Again: Differing cultures
Indeed. You just need to get used to it.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all
progress depends on the unreasonable
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