Re: [whatwg] scripts that remove focus from links during document navigation

On 20/09/06, Hallvord R M Steen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This coding is very common because IE adds a small outline border to focused links. Authors who do not like this will blur links when they are activated to avoid this cosmetic issue. (Mea culpa: I've done exactly this myself in sites I

Re: [whatwg] Persistent storage is critically flawed.

On 28/08/06, Shannon Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I accept tracking is inevitable but we shouldn't be making it easier either. You have to remember that the WHAT-WG individual is a Google employee, a company that now relies on accurate tracking of details, so don't be surprised that any pro

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic content accessibility in HTML today

On 14/08/06, Aaron Leventhal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I hadn't considered putting an alt text on it, because the image's function is described by the role itself. It's got nothing to do with it's function, you've got an image in the page, to be accessible a user has to be able to find out wha

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic content accessibility in HTML today

On 14/08/06, Aaron Leventhal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What browser/screen reader are you using? You need at Firefox 1.5 or later and Window-Eyes 5.5 or later or JAWS 7 or later. I'm not using a screen reader, accessibility is about not requiring a particular technology... Or did I miss a me

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic content accessibility in HTML today

On 13/08/06, Aaron Leventhal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So we already have truly accessible DHTML widgets that are key navigable and usable with 3rd party tools such as screen readers. Could I ask where these are discussed? Because things like: http://www.mozilla.org/access/dhtml/class/checkbo

Re: [whatwg] fullscreen event?

On 11/05/06, Anne van Kesteren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My suggestion would be to have a renderingMode event (or something like that) which in some way exposes a mediaList of the current rendering modes (mostly just one). If you go to print preview mode for example the event is dispatched and t

Re: [whatwg] fullscreen event?

On 10/05/06, Dean Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 10/05/06, Jorgen Horstink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just had a little chat with Anne and he thinks a rendering change > event (ie: before printing, generate a table of contents) will be usefull. > I think he is right. > I suggested onb

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/21/06, Gervase Markham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Chris Holland wrote: > > That's where the extra HTTP header would come-in: > > "X-Allow-Foreign-Hosts": Forcing developers who expose such a service, > > to make the conscious choice to expose data to the world, what Jim > > refers to as "OPT

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/20/06, Douglas Crockford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Or indeed wrote your script before this JSONRequest was invented. > > I think I see where you are confused. A pre-JSONRequest JSON application > will be using GET, or POST with a conventional POST body. What exactly is a "conventional P

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

> My intention with JSONRequest is to make it minimal because being minimal will > make it easier to understand and easier to implement correctly. Making caching behave completely differently for http://example.org/json.rjs in two different situations is not easy to understand. Making caching beh

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/19/06, Douglas Crockford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The mimetype you're defining, because it is new, pretty-much ensures > > no existing service behind an intranet could be affected. > > > I could still envision one day developers setting-up JSON syndication > > services behind an intr

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/17/06, Douglas Crockford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The cache rules are unworkable, please remove these and use standard > > HTTP methods for suggesting the cacheability of a resource, forcing > > them to be uncacheable is unworkable w.r.t. to proxy caches and > > extremely unwelcome withi

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/17/06, Gervase Markham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jim Ley wrote: > > Please can you provide more information on how raw JSON is available > > from script elements? > > Apologies; it was the Array constructor, and I was slightly wrong in the > detail

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/16/06, Gervase Markham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hallvord R M Steen wrote: > > You are right, if no variables are created one can't see the data by > > loading it in a SCRIPT tag. Are you aware of intranets/CMSes that use > > this as a security mechanism? > > That's not actually right. I'm

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/16/06, Hallvord R M Steen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > If you today embed data on an > > > intranet in JavaScript I can create a page that loads that script in a > > > SCRIPT tag and steal the data. > > > > Could you please describe how exactly? the contents of remote script > > elements

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/16/06, Hallvord R M Steen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 3/11/06, Jim Ley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Accessing JSON resources on a local intranet which are > > secured by nothing more than the requesting IP address. > > While this is a valid con

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/13/06, Douglas Crockford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > " It provides this highly valuable service while introducing no new > > security vulnerabilities. " > > > is false, please remove it to avoid any confusion. > > It would be very helpful if you could list the situations that >you have dete

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/13/06, Darin Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Moreover, if HTTP auth and cookies are not supported, then how does > someone restrict access to their JSON service? For example, it is > common practice to use Kerberos to implement HTTP auth on intranets. If you know you might be susceptible

Re: [whatwg] JSONRequest

On 3/11/06, Douglas Crockford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am proposing a new mechanism for doing data transport in Ajax/Comet > applications. It is called JSONRequest. It is a minimal communications > facility that can be exempted from the Same Origin Policy. > > You can read about it here: http

Re: [whatwg] diffed versions (CVS)

On 3/3/06, Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://svn.whatwg.org/ Excellent, thank you very much. > Converting the spec to wiki format is not an option while I'm an editor. Good, Please don't do this even if some new editor came along - which I don't want either. SVN is great, a few mo

Re: [whatwg] [wf2] changing the size DOM attribute of

On 2/11/06, Anne van Kesteren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Quoting Jim Ley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > D you mean the bug in Opera 9 that means changing the size of the > > select selects an entry? Surely that's just a bug in Opera 9 preview > > (but not 8.5), c

Re: [whatwg] [wf2] changing the size DOM attribute of

On 2/11/06, Anne van Kesteren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Quoting Jim Ley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I simply don't see the value in standardising the error behaviour here. > > Just setting it to 1, which is an appropriate value, does not give > interoperable >

Re: [whatwg] [wf2] changing the size DOM attribute of

On 2/11/06, Jim Ley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 2/10/06, Anne van Kesteren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Browsers disagree on what should be selected in such cases. Simple testcase: > > > > <http://webforms2.testsuite.org/controls/select/009.htm> >

Re: [whatwg] [wf2] changing the size DOM attribute of

On 2/10/06, Anne van Kesteren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Browsers disagree on what should be selected in such cases. Simple testcase: > > > > Opera 9 passes that test and I heard Safari nightlies do too. Internet > Explorer > and Firefox

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/5/06, Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 5 Feb 2006, Lachlan Hunt wrote: > Probably doesn't matter which group does it since it'd end up being me > doing the work either way... Well the review processes are slightly different :) > I can certainly see myself speccing a getElemen

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/5/06, James Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jim Ley wrote: > > On 2/5/06, James Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > DOM 3 XPath is of course only defined for XML, whilst it's no trouble > > defining it for valid HTML, it's not currently, for t

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/5/06, James Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jim Ley wrote: > > So something with no implementation should be taken over something > > with an existing implementation, that's pretty odd. > > Surely you can see that's a insane argument given the rela

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/4/06, Lachlan Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One issue with a Selector method though, how do we handle namespace > prefixes? Selectors states that the mechanism for declaring a namespace > prefix is left up to the language implementing Selectors. If we say the > script uses the same pref

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/4/06, Brad Fults <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I fully admit the possibility that this may be better accomplished > with some other theoretical and/or vendor-specific technology, but you > again missed the core point. the core point is we're inventing something new to meet a use case, you inve

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/4/06, Lachlan Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jim Ley wrote: > For example, if an author > marked up dates in their document like this (due to the lack of a date > element) > > 2006-02-03T01:30Z A nice use case, and one well met by XBL including the currently imple

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/4/06, Brad Fults <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I can't believe that you're so insistent upon this extremely narrow > set of use cases and that there aren't any other popular use cases for > getElementsByClassName(). It's the only one that's ever been voiced without the extreme prompting now ge

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/3/06, Michel Fortin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Le 2006-02-03 à 09:30, Jim Ley a écrit : > So to generalize the use case, when I want to attach an event to a > child element or an element linked by any other mean to the element > having that class, I can't use addEv

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/3/06, Gervase Markham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jim Ley wrote: > As an aside, I'd be interested in hearing about any JavaScript-less > methods (that don't involve marking up every instance of the word; this > doesn't work, as some are e.g. in href attri

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/3/06, Gervase Markham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jim Ley wrote: > > Yes, but they're all using it to attach events to every one of the > > class, which is why you have to look at use cases, the reason they're > > doing it is not because getElemen

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/3/06, Gervase Markham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jim Ley wrote: > > the document of course shows no use cases at all. > > Is there some doubt that the ability to tag an arbitrary set of elements > and later easily get an array of those elements is a useful featu

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/3/06, Gervase Markham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jim Ley wrote: > > Rather than talk about technical details, can be talk about the actual > > use cases please, working groups keep on creating things which need > > implementing, testing etc. without once

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByClassName()

On 2/3/06, Gervase Markham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This seems like a sensible change. Call it getElementsByClassNames() > would make it obvious that if you supply multiple class names, you get > only elements with all those names. And it would be a reasonably obvious > reduction that if you ju

Re: [whatwg] Web Forms 2 Test Suite

On 1/23/06, Anne van Kesteren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Quoting Jim Ley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > It appears many of the tests require CSS 2, does this mean that Web > > Forms 2.0 requires CSS2, I'd missed that, I am unable to test my > > implementat

Re: [whatwg] Web Forms 2 Test Suite

On 1/23/06, Anne van Kesteren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Most of the tests are inside the "controls/" section. There need always need > to > be more tests obviously. Currently it hosts a over two hundred test files if > I'm not mistaken, but not everything i

Re: [whatwg] Sandboxing scripts: call for a wider discussion

On 1/23/06, Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:15:39 +0600, Lachlan Hunt > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/WD-DOM-Level-2-HTML-20011210/html.html#ID-75233634 > > I'm surprised. document.write is defined but it's substantially different

Re: [whatwg] The element and "display: meta"

On 1/22/06, Anne van Kesteren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > However, I'm still not sure what problem is being solved here. Me either, I know it gets boring me saying it, but one of the problems with working groups of all denominations, is the focus on the technical features rather than the use case

Re: [whatwg]

On 1/19/06, Tyler Close <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 1/19/06, Jim Ley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No, they'll just disable it, as it does them directly no benefit and > > has a cost, so if you educate them enough to make a decision, they > > will not dec

Re: [whatwg] Definition of alt= attribute

On 1/21/06, Matthew Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Alexey Feldgendler wrote: > If an element is being used in a "certainly presentational" > way, should it not be done away with in favor of CSS? CSS only allows for background images not for other presentational images, to cover for this "

Re: [whatwg]

On 1/19/06, Tyler Close <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think it would be fair to characterize current techniques for link > click tracking as "opaque". In contrast, the proposed "ping" attribute > explicitly declares in the HTML what is intended and how it will > happen. Perhaps the right way to ex

Re: [whatwg] Definition of alt= attribute

On 1/19/06, Anne van Kesteren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Quoting Alexey Feldgendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I wonder why alt is a required attribute for IMG in HTML while an > > empty value is allowed. > > Because an empty value means that there is no alternate text and no > attribute at > all

Re: [whatwg] UA validation and the submit event

On 1/18/06, Hallvord Reiar Michaelsen Steen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't fire onsubmit at all, only that > perhaps it would be more backwards-compatible if onsubmit took place > after the UA validation. But it still doesn't fire if the useragent prevents valida

Re: [whatwg] UA validation and the submit event

On 1/17/06, Hallvord Reiar Michaelsen Steen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Kayak.com is in trouble because they've set a maxlength that is > smaller than some of the data the script sets input value to. (I'm > sending them some feedback about that). However, the site shows an > interesting problem: t

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByCSSSelector

On 1/14/06, liorean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 14/01/06, Jim Ley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Could you explain some use cases? > > For the very same reason you might want DOM to provide an XPATH > engine, TreeWalkers or NodeIterators - To get efficient host-

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByCSSSelector

On 1/14/06, Julien Couvreur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [use cases for CSS selectors] > One of the main uses is to bind behaviors to elements. This allows for > a clean markup with a well separated logic. Then it fails miserably at the job, HTML documents render progressively, behaviour also need

Re: [whatwg] getElementsByCSSSelector

On 1/14/06, Karoly Negyesi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A getElementsByCSSSelector IMO would be great and introduces minimal plus > burden on browsers -- they have CSS selector code anyways. > > It's very unfriendly that I can do magic with CSS2/3 selectors and then I > need to translate them mysel

Re: [whatwg] Menus, fallback, and backwards compatibility: ideas wanted

On 1/1/06, Sander Tekelenburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm a 100% with Ian here, LINK is dead. > It could offer "shortcuts" (key combo's) to standard LINKs like > next, previous, help, search, home. Etc. next/previous - most pages on the internet don't have a meaningful next/previous state, an

Re: [whatwg] Menus, fallback, and backwards compatibility: ideas wanted

On 12/31/05, Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 21 Dec 2005, Alexey Feldgendler wrote: > > > > > > It may just be me, but I perceive a great deal of difference between > > > "IE supports CSS poorly" and "IE doesn't support CSS at all", only the > > > latter of which seems relevant in

Re: [whatwg] [WF2] form submission protocols and methods

On 12/20/05, Maciej Stachowiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Um, they shouldn't be able to. Or at least, in many UAs they can't. > > Do you know of UAs that will prevent a file: URL document from > loading another file: URL in a frame or iframe? Or apply any > restrictions to scripting access to th

Re: [whatwg] XMLHttpRequest.status on connection timeout

On 11/30/05, Boris Zbarsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What should XMLHttpRequest.status return on connection timeout? Ian and I > were > talking about this, and it seems like "502" is a good response code here... > > See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=304980 I understood the aim

Re: [whatwg] [html5] html:style parsing

On 10/30/05, Anne van Kesteren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > (Mozilla seems to treat elements and comments differently as shown in 001, > 002, > 003 and 004. Both testcases all show green in Opera and Mozilla.) Is this not a bug? I

Re: [whatwg]

On 10/22/05, Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, S. Mike Dierken wrote: > > Oh, that really shouldn't be done via POST. Clicking a link should be > > safe and sending a POST as a side-effect is not safe. > > GET means that you can do it again without affecting anything. In

Re: [whatwg] comments on Web Forms 2.0

On 10/13/05, Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Josh Aas wrote: > > - Section 1.1: "browsers prevalent in 2004" - could be more specific > > given that the number of decently conforming HTML 4 and DOM > > implementations can probably be counted on one hand (Gecko, KHTML,