Re: [whatwg] HTML5 video: frame accuracy / SMPTE

2011-01-23 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, as the decoding speed approaches realtime the seeking time approaches what you'd get by seeking to the prior keyframe and playing up to the current point, except with the exact seeking you sit around

Re: [whatwg] HTML5 video: frame accuracy / SMPTE

2011-01-23 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Philip Jägenstedt phil...@opera.comwrote: Since, as you say, the behavior is currently inconsistent, there is still time to agree on something that makes sense and have everyone implement that. I think the best default is keyframe seeking and haven't seen any

Re: [whatwg] HTML5 video: frame accuracy / SMPTE

2011-01-23 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 12:03 AM, Philip Jägenstedt phil...@opera.comwrote: Ah, thanks for clarifying. It might be a bit odd for the spec to forbid being too clever, but I think that in practice always seeking to the same point is much easier, so that's what would be implemented. It would

Re: [whatwg] Value of media.currentTime immediately after setting

2011-01-23 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Matthew Gregan kine...@flim.org wrote: This doesn't seem to be required by the current wording of the spec (in fact, it seems to be incorrect behaviour), but I think this behaviour is more intuitive, as it seems unusual that currentTime returns to the old

Re: [whatwg] HTML5 video: frame accuracy / SMPTE

2011-01-24 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:32 PM, Philip Jägenstedt phil...@opera.comwrote: On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 02:36:15 +0100, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: Interop problems are going to arise with approximate seeking no matter what we do, which is why it shouldn't be the default. OK

Re: [whatwg] HTML5 video: frame accuracy / SMPTE

2011-01-24 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Philip Jägenstedt phil...@opera.comwrote: On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:10:21 +0100, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: Interesting. It doesn't in Firefox; script always sees a snapshot of a consistent state until it returns to the event loop or does

Re: [whatwg] Websockets Client API

2011-02-20 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Toni Ruottu toni.ruo...@iki.fi wrote: I believed that the browser is expected to somehow magically delay the events until a callback has been registered. At least that is how it seems to work at the moment. The specification could be clearer about this.

Re: [whatwg] Websockets Client API

2011-02-20 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Bruce Atherton br...@callenish.com wrote: Perhaps you are reading a different spec than I am. The only language I see about queuing tasks involves changing the ready state on the Websocket object. There is nothing in there about waiting until a block of other

Re: [whatwg] Can we deprecate alert(), confirm(), prompt() ?

2011-03-01 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Ojan Vafai o...@chromium.org wrote: FWIW, chromium is planning on experimenting with disallowing modal dialogs during the beforeunload/unload events. http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=68780 That sounds fairly unpleasant for users of pages

Re: [whatwg] Canvas and drawWindow

2011-03-14 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 5:56 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote: I think we should be closing the svg/foreignObject hole, not expanding it as the primary way to smuggle in drawWindow functionality. ^_^ I actually think svg image + foreignobject is an OK way to smuggle in the

Re: [whatwg] Stream API Feedback

2011-03-15 Thread Robert O'Callahan
Instead of creating new state signalling and control API for streams, what about the alternative approach of letting video and audio use sensors as sources, and a way to connect the output of video and audio to encoders? Then we'd get all the existing state machinery for free. We'd also get sensor

Re: [whatwg] Stream API Feedback

2011-03-15 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Bjartur Thorlacius svartma...@gmail.comwrote: On 3/15/11, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: Instead of creating new state signalling and control API for streams, what about the alternative approach of letting video and audio use sensors

Re: [whatwg] Stream API Feedback

2011-03-16 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 4:36 AM, Lachlan Hunt lachlan.h...@lachy.id.auwrote: I'm not entirely sure I understand your proposal, but are you suggesting that the input streams from the camera/microphone would first go to video and audio elements, allowing the existing HTMLMediaElement API on

Re: [whatwg] Ongoing work on an editing commands (execCommand()) specification

2011-03-21 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Ehsan Akhgari eh...@mozilla.com wrote: You're proposing to remove something from Gecko and Webkit which has been supported for many years (about 8 years for Gecko). We do not have the ability to make sure that nobody is relying on this in any of the billions

Re: [whatwg] Ongoing work on an editing commands (execCommand()) specification

2011-03-22 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Aryeh Gregor simetrical+...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: We can deprecate the CSS mode and leave it unspecified, without removing it from Webkit and Gecko. That won't hurt interop since

Re: [whatwg] Peer-to-peer communication, video conferencing, and related topics (2)

2011-03-28 Thread Robert O'Callahan
Ian Hickson wrote: I agree that (on the long term) we should support stream filters on streams, but I'm not sure I understand video's role in this. Wouldn't it be more efficient to have something that takes a Stream on one side and outputs a Stream on the other, possibly running some native

Re: [whatwg] Media elements statistics

2011-03-31 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chris Pearce ch...@pearce.org.nz wrote: On 1/04/2011 12:22 p.m., Steve Lacey wrote: Chris - in the mozilla stats, I agree on the need for a frame count of frames that actually make it the the screen, but am interested in why we need both presented and painted?

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic pseudo-classes on video/audio element to allow styling of controls

2011-04-25 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Dimitri Glazkov dglaz...@chromium.orgwrote: Based on WebKit's current media controls, let's start with these pseudo-classes: Play state: - loading - playing - streaming - error What's the difference between 'playing' and 'streaming'? Currently I don't

Re: [whatwg] Dynamic pseudo-classes on video/audio element to allow styling of controls

2011-04-25 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Dimitri Glazkov dglaz...@chromium.orgwrote: On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Dimitri Glazkov dglaz...@chromium.org wrote: Based on WebKit's current media controls, let's start

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for a web application descriptor

2011-04-30 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Glenn Maynard gl...@zewt.org wrote: This is why--in general--I like the model so far: the user is asked for permission in response to actually doing something that uses a feature. In the notepad app, you're asked for permission to access the internet when

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for a web application descriptor

2011-04-30 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 1:52 AM, Glenn Maynard gl...@zewt.org wrote: On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 5:23 AM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: The application could have a settings page with a checkbox Enable desktop notifications. When you click on that box, the browser shows its

Re: [whatwg] Proposal to remove a paragraph from canvas spec

2011-05-03 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Matthew Delaney mdela...@apple.com wrote: Since: 1) This behavior is obviously not ideal (see the linked animation above) and is really just a bug See the thread canvas shadow compositing oddities from July 2008. In that thread, Eric Butler points out that

Re: [whatwg] Full Screen API Feedback

2011-05-11 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 6:27 AM, Jer Noble jer.no...@apple.com wrote: 1. Z-index as the primary means of elevating full screen elements to the foreground. The spec suggests that a full screen element is given a z-index of BIGNUM in order to cause the full screen element to be visible on top

Re: [whatwg] Full Screen API Feedback

2011-05-12 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Jer Noble jer.no...@apple.com wrote: On May 12, 2011, at 11:24 AM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: On 5/12/11 12:48 PM, Jer Noble wrote: I'm saying that if authors expect to get one or the other but then never do, that will confuse authors. Again, I fail to see

Re: [whatwg] Full Screen API Feedback

2011-05-12 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 4:48 AM, Jer Noble jer.no...@apple.com wrote: I don't consider the following to be a usable UI: - User clicks a full screen button - Content resizes to occupy full window - Browser pops up a permissions dialog - User has to click the Allow button* - Window then

Re: [whatwg] Full Screen API Feedback

2011-05-12 Thread Robert O'Callahan
[Re-CCing list, hope that's OK.] On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Jer Noble jer.no...@apple.com wrote: On May 12, 2011, at 3:49 PM, Robert O'Callahan wrote: On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Jer Noble jer.no...@apple.com wrote: I understand what you're saying. By making the error case

Re: [whatwg] Full Screen API Feedback

2011-05-12 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Aryeh Gregor simetrical+...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: For this case, I think probably a better UI would be what Flash has, to actually go full-screen immediately but temporarily show

Re: [whatwg] Proposal to remove a paragraph from canvas spec

2011-05-12 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Wed, 4 May 2011, Robert O'Callahan wrote: 4) remove the no-shadow special case, but add a special case to not draw shadows for operators other than source-over I think I prefer #4. I have yet to hear of any use-case

Re: [whatwg] Interaction of wbr and CSS white-space

2011-05-16 Thread Robert O'Callahan
Amazingly, our line breaking rationale is actually quite well documented! https://wiki.mozilla.org/Gecko:Line_Breaking Some comments on UAX#14: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/unicode/linebr.html Rob -- Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the

Re: [whatwg] video ... script race condition

2011-05-17 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Philip Jägenstedt phil...@opera.comwrote: To target this specific pattern, one hypothetical solution would be to special-case the first script that attaches event handlers to a video element. After it has run, all events that were already fired before the

Re: [whatwg] video ... script race condition

2011-05-17 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: Sure! For certain kinds of events (load, the video events, maybe more), delay the firing of such events until, say, after DOMContentLoaded has fired. If you're careful you might be able to make this a strict subset

Re: [whatwg] Proposal to remove a paragraph from canvas spec

2011-05-30 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Fri, 13 May 2011, Robert O'Callahan wrote: Can you put a note in the spec that we're thinking of changing this behavior, so developers are less likely to start depending on it, and we've got some cover in case it breaks

[whatwg] canvas drawing with singular transforms and zero-sized gradients

2011-06-23 Thread Robert O'Callahan
Consider this testcase: http://people.mozilla.org/~roc/SingularCanvasMatrix.html It sets up a rectangle to fill, then sets the current matrix to a singular matrix (yy=0 in this case), then fills with different fillStyles. It's not clear from the spec how this is supposed to behave, and there's not

Re: [whatwg] canvas drawing with singular transforms and zero-sized gradients

2011-06-23 Thread Robert O'Callahan
PS, ignore the zero-sized gradients part of the subject. Sorry. Rob -- If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not

Re: [whatwg] canvas drawing with singular transforms and zero-sized gradients

2011-06-24 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 5:38 AM, Aryeh Gregor simetrical+...@gmail.comwrote: I'm not familiar enough with the canvas API to have an informed opinion on what should happen here, but mathematically it makes sense to me that nothing should be drawn ever if the transform matrix is singular.

Re: [whatwg] canvas drawing with singular transforms and zero-sized gradients

2011-06-24 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 5:38 AM, Aryeh Gregor simetrical+...@gmail.comwrote: If you define different behavior for solid colors or gradients, doesn't that mean that they'll behave differently from if you used an image that looked exactly the same? That seems bad. If you set up a path

Re: [whatwg] canvas drawing with singular transforms and zero-sized gradients

2011-06-26 Thread Robert O'Callahan
Gradients already aren't continuous where the start and end points are equal. I think it would be OK to draw nothing as Aryeh suggests. At least it's easy to spec and implement, and I doubt authors will care (they haven't cared about the browser behaviors so far AFAIK).

Re: [whatwg] canvas drawing with singular transforms and zero-sized gradients

2011-06-26 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: On 6/26/11 8:18 PM, Robert O'Callahan wrote: Gradients already aren't continuous where the start and end points are equal. I think it would be OK to draw nothing as Aryeh suggests. At least it's easy to spec and implement

Re: [whatwg] canvas drawing with singular transforms and zero-sized gradients

2011-06-28 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 6:19 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: Gradients already aren't continuous where the start and end points are equal. I think it would be OK to draw nothing as Aryeh suggests

Re: [whatwg] Extending HTML 5 video for adaptive streaming

2011-06-30 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:59 AM, Aaron Colwell acolw...@google.com wrote: I've also been looking at the WebRTC MediaStream API and was wondering if it makes more sense to create an object similar to the LocalMediaStream object. This has the benefits of unifying how media streams are handled

Re: [whatwg] Extending HTML 5 video for adaptive streaming

2011-07-04 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Aaron Colwell acolw...@google.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:59 AM, Aaron Colwell acolw...@google.comwrote: I've also been looking at the WebRTC MediaStream API

Re: [whatwg] Proposal to remove a paragraph from canvas spec

2011-07-04 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Fri, 13 May 2011, Robert O'Callahan wrote: Can you put a note in the spec that we're thinking of changing this behavior, so developers

Re: [whatwg] Proposal to extend registerProtocolHandler

2011-07-05 Thread Robert O'Callahan
I don't think browsers need to prompt for registerProtocolHandler. Instead, I would simply allow any site to register as a protocol handler for almost anything, and remember all such registrations. When the user navigates to a URI whose protocol has had an app newly registered for it since the

Re: [whatwg] Proposal to extend registerProtocolHandler

2011-07-06 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Olli Pettay olli.pet...@helsinki.fi wrote: On 07/06/2011 07:51 AM, Robert O'Callahan wrote: I don't think browsers need to prompt for registerProtocolHandler. Instead, I would simply allow any site to register as a protocol handler for almost anything

Re: [whatwg] Proposal to extend registerProtocolHandler

2011-07-06 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Olli Pettay olli.pet...@helsinki.fiwrote: On 07/06/2011 07:51 AM, Robert O'Callahan wrote: I don't think browsers need to prompt for registerProtocolHandler. Instead, I would

Re: [whatwg] Timing API proposal for measuring intervals

2011-07-07 Thread Robert O'Callahan
I like it so far, module bikeshedding. (I might call it window.currentTime.) One question is whether you allow the value to change while a script runs. When using the value to schedule animations, it would be helpful for the value to only change between stable states. If you refer to this value

Re: [whatwg] Timing API proposal for measuring intervals

2011-07-08 Thread Robert O'Callahan
, On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:54 PM, James Robinson jam...@google.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: Using this value as a clock for media synchronization sounds appealing but is complicated by audio clock drift. When you play N seconds

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for a MediaSource API that allows sending media data to a HTMLMediaElement

2011-07-11 Thread Robert O'Callahan
It seems to me that the spec is written assuming only one media element is consuming the MediaSource. But nothing stops multiple elements consuming the same URL simultaneously. Maybe instead of going through a URL you should add API directly to media elements. bytesAvailable is for flow control?

Re: [whatwg] Timing API proposal for measuring intervals

2011-07-11 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Chris Rogers crog...@google.com wrote: In the CoreAudio case, the AudioTimeStamp contains *both* the host-time (system clock) and the sample time (based on audio hardware). This creates a relationship between the two clocks. As an example of how these two

Re: [whatwg] Timing API proposal for measuring intervals

2011-07-11 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Glenn Maynard gl...@zewt.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 8:57 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: Suppose we wanted to sync animation (either scripted animation or CSS animation) to audio. We'd want them to use the audio clock, right

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for a MediaSource API that allows sending media data to a HTMLMediaElement

2011-07-12 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Aaron Colwell acolw...@google.com wrote: I thought about adding an attribute to HTMLMediaElement that provided a URL for signalling MediaSource usage. That mechanism would allow you to create a URL that only works with that element. When this URL is specified,

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for a MediaSource API that allows sending media data to a HTMLMediaElement

2011-07-12 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Aaron Colwell acolw...@google.com wrote: I'm open to that. In fact that is how my current prototype is implemented because it was the least painful way to test these ideas in WebKit. My prototype only implements append() and uses existing media element events

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for a MediaSource API that allows sending media data to a HTMLMediaElement

2011-07-12 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Aaron Colwell acolw...@google.com wrote: I'm doing WebM demuxing and media fetching in JavaScript. When a seek occurs, I look at currentTime to see where we are seeking to. I then look at the CUES index data I've fetched to find the file offset for the closest

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for a MediaSource API that allows sending media data to a HTMLMediaElement

2011-07-12 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Aaron Colwell acolw...@google.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: I had imagined that this API would let the author feed in the same data as you would load from some URI. But that can't be what's

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for a MediaSource API that allows sending media data to a HTMLMediaElement

2011-07-13 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 4:35 AM, Aaron Colwell acolw...@google.com wrote: I am open to suggestions. My intent was that the browser would not attempt to cache any data passed into append(). It would just demux the buffers that are sent in. When a seek is requested, it flushes whatever it has

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for improved handling of '#' inside of data URIs

2011-09-14 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org wrote: Have implementors actively opposed to this idea? It seems like sticking to RFC is a cleaner option if possible. Yeah. Will you fix it in Webkit? :-) Rob -- If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the

Re: [whatwg] [fullscreen] Tasks

2011-10-17 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@opera.com wrote: Is the event dispatched in the same task that makes the element or document go full screen? No. We want to allow for asynchronous UI. Rob -- If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen revision I

2011-10-25 Thread Robert O'Callahan
Thanks for working on this. When you say No longer any attempts at integrating with F11 fullscreen, do you mean to rule out the possibility that UAs do that? E.g., would you allow UAs to have UI that makes the current document fullscreen and sets the fullscreen element to the root element? I'm

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen Update

2011-10-29 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 11:57 PM, James Graham jgra...@opera.com wrote: On 10/19/2011 06:40 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote: Is that an acceptable limitation? Alternatively we could postpone the nested fullscreen scenario for now (i.e. make requestFullscreen fail if already fullscreen). I

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen Update

2011-10-31 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 7:52 AM, James Graham jgra...@opera.com wrote: On Sat, 29 Oct 2011, Robert O'Callahan wrote: I don't think punting on nested fullscreen is a good idea. It's not some edge case that most applications can't hit. For example, it will come up with any content that can go

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen Update

2011-10-31 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: I don't think punting on nested fullscreen is a good idea. It's not some edge case that most applications can't hit. For example, it will come up with any content that can go full-screen and can contain an embedded

[whatwg] instantiating display:none plugins

2011-11-01 Thread Robert O'Callahan
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-object-element The above algorithm is independent of CSS properties (including 'display', 'overflow', and 'visibility'). For example, it runs even if the element is hidden with a 'display:none' CSS style, and does not run again if the

Re: [whatwg] instantiating display:none plugins

2011-11-01 Thread Robert O'Callahan
I should add that the patch that uncovered this issue hasn't even landed on Firefox nightlies yet (well, it was in one nightly and got reverted) so we haven't had much testing. It seems unlikely we have found the only site that's broken. Rob -- If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves

Re: [whatwg] instantiating display:none plugins

2011-11-01 Thread Robert O'Callahan
One more thing. I added a hide and show plugin with flush test that sets the plugin to display:none, causes a layout flush (by requesting body.getBoundingClientRect()) and then sets the plugin back to display:inline. On Firefox, Chrome and Opera this restarts the plugin instance; on IE9 it

[whatwg] Allowing custom attributes on html or body in documents for media resources

2011-11-09 Thread Robert O'Callahan
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#read-media Can we allow the UA to add custom vendor-prefixed attributes to the html and/or body elements? Alternatively, a vendor-prefixed class? We want to be able to use a style sheet with rules matching custom attributes to indicate various

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen CSS

2011-11-14 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: Having the rest of the page visible under the fullscreen element is not expected and I think we should default to avoiding it. background:black seemed like the right thing for video and a reasonable default for other

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen revision I

2011-11-14 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:27 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@opera.com wrote: Sorry for the late reply. Getting to and from TPAC and TPAC itself is basically the reason. I hope you understand. Yeah no worries mate. About your nested-fullscreen proposal, I do not see how To fix the nested

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen revision I

2011-11-14 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Jeremy Apthorp jere...@chromium.orgwrote: One problem with the existing implementation in WebKit of fullscreen is that it is possible to focus with Tab elements that are not contained within the fullscreened element. This is a problem for assistive devices in

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen CSS

2011-11-14 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote: I think we should go the route that the dialog element did in Ted's change proposal and have a pseudo-element that gets created when an element is fullscreened. Simple and easy, and trivial for the author to

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen CSS

2011-11-14 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote: Hm, why would it require stacking-level changes? One obvious way to get it to act correctly is to make it wrap around the element, like the old ::outside pseudo-element proposal. Then it's trivial. The CP says The

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen revision I

2011-11-14 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Jeremy Apthorp jere...@chromium.orgwrote: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Jeremy Apthorp jere...@chromium.orgwrote: One problem with the existing implementation in WebKit

Re: [whatwg] Allowing custom attributes on html or body in documents for media resources

2011-11-15 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: So I propose that a toplevel class be set on the root element of a media resource document in a toplevel browsing context. While I'd

Re: [whatwg] Allowing custom attributes on html or body in documents for media resources

2011-11-15 Thread Robert O'Callahan
Very well then, I propose that a toplevel attribute be added to the root element of media resource documents in toplevel browsing contexts :-). Rob -- If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen CSS

2011-11-16 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Edward O'Connor eocon...@apple.com wrote: It seems like we shouldn't assume that these are the only two features that will ever need this sort of rendering support. I'll get a www-style thread going. Thanks. If multiple specs (or even multiple running

Re: [whatwg] Stacked Fullscreen

2011-11-16 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:41 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@opera.com wrote: On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 04:06:28 +0200, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: I'm not comfortable with punting the nested-fullscreen cases. It means that if you have a document with an embedded video

Re: [whatwg] Proposal to remove a paragraph from canvas spec

2012-01-09 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: Should we still make shadows only work in source-over mode, or should we leave the spec as is in this area? It's probably not worth changing the spec at this time. I think it would be a bit simpler, and if we run into

Re: [whatwg] Using SVG instead of Canvas for extensions

2012-01-18 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: Whether other UAs can fix this bug on their end faster than they can add various canvas APIs is an interesting discussion, I suppose. Of course it's vastly better for the Web platform for browsers to fix their bugs than

Re: [whatwg] Using SVG instead of Canvas for extensions

2012-01-18 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Elliott Sprehn espr...@gmail.com wrote: Gecko completely punts rendering foreignObject to a canvas I don't think it does. See http://robert.ocallahan.org/2011/11/drawing-dom-content-to-canvas.html and

Re: [whatwg] Allowing custom attributes on html or body in documents for media resources

2012-01-30 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: Is there any reason you can't just put whatever styles you want into a style element? It's not clear to me why you need to reference a global style sheet rather than referencing or generating a style sheet specifically for

[whatwg] Endianness of typed arrays

2012-03-27 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Kenneth Russell k...@google.com wrote: Production browsers already implement typed arrays with their current semantics. It is not possible to change them and have WebGL continue to function. I will go so far as to say that the semantics will not be changed.

Re: [whatwg] Endianness of typed arrays

2012-03-28 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Charles Pritchard ch...@jumis.com wrote: It does seem like a bigger warning in the spec may benefit developers. A warning and an example of how to check for big-endian results. Asking developers to write extra code paths for users that don't exist is futile.

Re: [whatwg] Endianness of typed arrays

2012-03-28 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Charles Pritchard ch...@jumis.com wrote: I consider your position one of benevolent paternalism. You are free to stick with it, and to apply it in your patch submissions. I've no desire to coddle low-level coders. They know what they're getting into. I'm

Re: [whatwg] Endianness of typed arrays

2012-03-28 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Charles Pritchard ch...@jumis.com wrote: When you or Robert disparage developers as a class, that is harmful. I apologise for being careless in my language. I don't intend to cast aspersions on developers, and I should choose my words more carefully to make

Re: [whatwg] Endianness of typed arrays

2012-03-28 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Kenneth Russell k...@google.com wrote: Once DataView is available everywhere then the top priority should be to write educational materials regarding binary I/O. It should be possible to educate the web development community about correct practices with only a

Re: [whatwg] Endianness of typed arrays

2012-03-28 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 2:21 PM, John Tamplin j...@google.com wrote: a = someFunctionReturningUint16ArrayWhichMightBeLEorBE(); a[4] = 100; the call to store into a might need to call Uint16LEArray or Uint16BEArray.storeInto under the hood. If you only ever use one, then the JIT'er can just

Re: [whatwg] [media] startOffsetTime, also add startTime?

2012-04-03 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Philip Jägenstedt phil...@opera.com wrote: AFAIK, no browser supports any format for video that does not have timestamps. I have patches being reviewed that add support for using MediaStreams as video sources. These do not have timestamps. Rob -- “You have

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen changes to support dialog

2012-04-03 Thread Robert O'Callahan
This seems reasonable to me. On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: This layer consists of a stack of elements, which each CSS viewport maintains. These stacks are initially empty. When the layer is painted, the elements in the stack are rendered in the order

[whatwg] Firing canplaythrough when caches/buffers are full

2012-05-27 Thread Robert O'Callahan
We encountered an app that uses canplaythrough on a video element to trigger execution of the app so we don't start playing the video until we can do so without stuttering. http://gaiamobile.org/apps/cubevid/ This approach works fine on desktop browsers. On mobile browsers, we want a smaller limit

Re: [whatwg] Firing canplaythrough when caches/buffers are full

2012-05-31 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Andrew Scherkus scher...@google.comwrote: Rob: when you say to suspend a download indefinitely would this coincide with dropping the networkState to NETWORK_IDLE and subsequently firing a suspend event? Yes. I'm not sure whether we want to require that the

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen events dispatched to elements

2012-06-04 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Jer Noble jer.no...@apple.com wrote: On Jun 1, 2012, at 6:45 PM, Chris Pearce cpea...@mozilla.com wrote: Because we exit fullscreen when the fullscreen element is removed from the document, so if you dispatch events to the context element, the

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen events dispatched to elements

2012-06-05 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Jer Noble jer.no...@apple.com wrote: Actually, in WebKit, we explicitly also message the document from which the element was removed in that case. I don't see why this behavior couldn't be standardized. Did you inform the spec editor(s) when you decided to

Re: [whatwg] Fullscreen events dispatched to elements

2012-06-06 Thread Robert O'Callahan
What do you do when element A goes fullscreen and then element B in the same document goes fullscreen on top of it? Do you fire a single fullscreenchange event at B? Or do you fire a fullscreenchange event at A and then at B? Or something else? Rob -- “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your

Re: [whatwg] Proposal for HTML5: Motion sensing input device (Kinect, SoftKinetic, Asus Xtion)

2012-06-27 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.comwrote: The ability to capture sound and video from the user's devices and manipulate it in the page is already being exposed by the getUserMedia function. Theoretically, a Kinect can provide this information. More advanced

Re: [whatwg] CSS Filter Effects for Canvas 2D Context

2012-07-25 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that it would be great to have filter effects in Canvas. It should be fairly efficient if you have a GPU backend since the effects can all be done with shaders so it should take up too much memory. This workflow

Re: [whatwg] allowfullscreen vs sandbox=allow-fullscreen, and mimicking for pointer lock

2012-07-31 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote: It's not clear to me from the spec how the allowfullscreen attribute works. It appears to be mentioned only in the security and privacy considerations section. For example, suppose I have three frames: Main frame: a.html

Re: [whatwg] Hardware accelerated canvas

2012-09-04 Thread Robert O'Callahan
We might be able to do some sort of hack where if a 2D canvas isn't drawn to for a while (say five seconds), we read back a copy of it for safe-keeping. I have to say though, we've been shipping 2D canvas with the context-loss problem to millions of users for a couple of years now and I don't

Re: [whatwg] [canvas] Path object

2012-10-03 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Glenn Maynard gl...@zewt.org wrote: On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:16 PM, Charles Pritchard ch...@jumis.com wrote: I think moz already made the move to require document.getElementById for these cases. It looks like they did in FF13 (in standards mode, not quirks

Re: [whatwg] Should scrollbars move focus?

2012-10-31 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:16 AM, Ojan Vafai o...@chromium.org wrote: Does anyone from Mozilla know why textarea scrollbars are special-cased in Gecko? Would be good to know if there is a web compatibility requirement here. I don't know of one off the top of my head. I can't see how it could

Re: [whatwg] Should scrollbars move focus?

2012-11-01 Thread Robert O'Callahan
It would be trivial to change Gecko so that clicking on scrollbars never moves focus. So I'm on the fence too, although obviously it would be lower-risk for us to not change anything :-). Rob -- Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and

Re: [whatwg] Enabling LCD Text in 2D canvases.

2012-11-13 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Justin Novosad ju...@chromium.org wrote: Any thoughts? We'd have to define what happens when you use subpixel antialiasing incorrectly, because we can be pretty sure authors will use it incorrectly and expect to get interoperable behavior. Mozilla supports a

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