[Wiki-research-l] real scholarship is expensive

2012-05-22 Thread Richard Jensen
There seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding among Wikipedians how academe actually works. Piotr thinks a grad student can produce a scholarly journal. Look at history. In reality it takes hundreds of scholars working together (almost all of whom are paid professional salaries by

Re: [Wiki-research-l] real scholarship is expensive

2012-05-22 Thread Ward Cunningham
I've seen professional scholarship go off track. I wrote wiki to give a voice to programmers who were struggling under the bad advice offered by academic computer science and software engineering. That's worked pretty well for us, no thanks to ACM or IEEE. From this perspective, everything

Re: [Wiki-research-l] real scholarship is expensive

2012-05-22 Thread Fred Bauder
We have about as much talent and personnel as one journal. And an operation of about the same order of magnitude. Fred There seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding among Wikipedians how academe actually works. Piotr thinks a grad student can produce a scholarly journal. Look at history.

Re: [Wiki-research-l] real scholarship is expensive

2012-05-22 Thread Piotr Konieczny
Piotr thinks a grad student can produce a scholarly journal. Please don't misquote me, Richard. What I said is that a grad student (in the capacity of assistant/managing editor) is the only person who needs to be paid specifically for their work on the journal. Of course I agree that it takes

Re: [Wiki-research-l] real scholarship is expensive

2012-05-22 Thread Richard Jensen
Piotr says Let me repeat: editors, authors and reviewers are not paid That's completely false. They are all paid professional salaries by their home universities, and the kind of work they do is counted in terms of getting jobs, promotions, pay raises and tenure. Furthermore for the authors

Re: [Wiki-research-l] real scholarship is expensive

2012-05-22 Thread Fred Bauder
Piotr says Let me repeat: editors, authors and reviewers are not paid That's completely false. They are all paid professional salaries by their home universities, and the kind of work they do is counted in terms of getting jobs, promotions, pay raises and tenure. Furthermore for the

Re: [Wiki-research-l] real scholarship is expensive

2012-05-22 Thread David Karger
As has already been discussed, journals have real costs that can be covered *either* by charging readers *or* by charging writers. Scientific publications general have *optional* page charges, which of course few people pay. But they could easily switch to requiring them. Such a switch

Re: [Wiki-research-l] real scholarship is expensive

2012-05-22 Thread Piotr Konieczny
The work of a reviewer does not count towards tenure, or any other reviews; nobody puts I reviewed articles on their CV, and reviewing books counts for very, very little. I don't think any number of book reviews would equal a peer reviewed journal publication in an academic job hunt.

Re: [Wiki-research-l] real scholarship is expensive

2012-05-22 Thread Peter Ansell
On 23 May 2012 14:47, Richard Jensen rjen...@uic.edu wrote: Making them pay $1000 to $5000 so their article is open access is a very unwise way to promote their scholarship. (Few if any prestigious history journals are now open access; this seems more an issue in sciences.) Some open access