Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hi! > makes sense to explicitly record the absence of a value. For example, > one might want to say that a politician is not a member of any party, > but one would not add this information to every human. One common example is George Washington (Q23). While most of the US presidents has been memb

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

On 23.04.2015 12:25, Thomas Douillard wrote: This is a question of point of vue and how to solves conflicted declaration, way larger than this. There could be disputes other who is really the father of something, this would be the same. such a statement in Wikidata means: * This source says that

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

You should ask the people that are at this time developping it, and Lydia, how they will handle this. Because they will, it's in the Wikibase DataModel, the same as qualifiers. We will probably be provided with options on how we want to handle ranks, unknown values and so on when we will build a q

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hoi, Yes you get both results at best and maybe arbitrarily only one never mind which one. It requires a query engine that is so smart that it is no longer the kind of query engine I know exists. Thanks, GerardM On 23 April 2015 at 12:18, Thomas Douillard wrote: > You should read the help

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

This is a question of point of vue and how to solves conflicted declaration, way larger than this. There could be disputes other who is really the father of something, this would be the same. such a statement in Wikidata means: * This source says that this person has no child * This (other) source

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hoi, A question about the example... does that second source really care about this and what do we do when we know this to be incorrect. It is bad enough to want to know about the sum of all knowledge, I do not care for present and past mistakes. Thanks, GerardM On 23 April 2015 at 12:15, J

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

You should read the helpages Gerard sometimes :) This is on the Wikidata plan since the beginning, it is usable since the beginning, and it will be queryable ... I really don't understand what bothers you. 2015-04-23 12:12 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen : > Hoi, > For me it is obvious ... this search

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Thanks! I added your example and Lydia's to the talk page here https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Talk:Q19798647 On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Thomas Douillard < thomas.douill...@gmail.com> wrote: > Don't use Q19798647 The item is just a description of the concept ! on > Wikidata, there is a way t

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hoi, For me it is obvious ... this search for perfection is an enemy of what is good in Wikidata. It destroys the results of queries. It is not usable and it is only of use in a very small percentage of cases. Compare it with the "female mayor" question. Our issue is that we have not enough data i

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Don't use Q19798647 The item is just a description of the concept ! on Wikidata, there is a way to set an unknow value to a claim. here is how to set this special value on a claim in the UI, in french : to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikidata_pas_de_valeur.png You must click to the li

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hey :) On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Jane Darnell wrote: > I think it is useful in the way you describe it, but I am curious how you > would model the source B saying that "X had no child" Like this: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q4115189&oldid=212444514 Cheers Lydia -- Lydi

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

In wikidata, the absence of a claim about something cannot mean the claim has no couterpart in reality, as Wikidata is an will always be incomplete. For example if we have a series, maybe finished, maybe unfinished, we wil have claims that says: Episode 2 follows Episode 1 Episode 3 follows Episo

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hoi, That does not clarify it. So what would we say ... it is in dispute sure but the way we work is that we have a child as a known person. So sources may dispute to their hearts content.. It is a relation that goes both ways.. How do we say novalue because it has to be a person ... "John Doe" doe

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

So the intention is to use Q19798647 as a random place holder specifically for Wikibase entities without a value, but not as a "no value" placeholder for a person? I think it is useful in the way you describe it, but I am curious how you would model the source B saying that "X had no child" On Thu

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > Sorry for being dense.. What is wrong with there being no value ? Having a > "no value" is imho understanding only a complication of saying nothing... > Why not say nothing in the first place ? It is important for cases like the fo

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hoi, Sorry for being dense.. What is wrong with there being no value ? Having a "no value" is imho understanding only a complication of saying nothing... Why not say nothing in the first place ? Thanks, GerardM On 22 April 2015 at 21:52, Markus Krötzsch wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > On 22.04.2015

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hehe, we should picture this idea in help page :) https://www.wikidata.org/entity/Q1061035 is not a pipe. 2015-04-23 9:50 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev : > Hi! > > > OK, I did not think it might confuse users, the label needs to be > changed. > > Yes, I think it

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hi! > OK, I did not think it might confuse users, the label needs to be changed. Yes, I think it should made clear that it should not be used for actual values. > It's of course not intended to use in statements which have no value, > it's just an attempt to express wikibase data model in Wikida

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

OK, I did not think it might confuse users, the label needs to be changed. It's of course not intended to use in statements which have no value, it's just an attempt to express wikibase data model in Wikidata. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q16354757 is not Wikibase Data model :) I changed the lab

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hi Thomas, On 22.04.2015 20:06, Thomas Douillard wrote: Hi, there is items about Wikibase data model in Wikidata (created by me, but not only) If I understand correctly, they could be cited in the semantic web as https://www.wikidata.org/entity/Q19798647 "No value" is exactly that: not a valu

Re: [Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hi! > Hi, there is items about Wikibase data model in Wikidata (created by me, > but not only) > > If I understand correctly, they could be cited in the semantic web as > https://www.wikidata.org/entity/Q19798647 What would be the purpose of these items? I.e., what is the intended usage? -- St

[Wikidata-l] items about data model concepts

Hi, there is items about Wikibase data model in Wikidata (created by me, but not only) If I understand correctly, they could be cited in the semantic web as https://www.wikidata.org/entity/Q19798647 (If they are kept /o\) Tom² ___ Wikidata-l mailing li