I find the remover of James very disappointing. He was elected by the community
and his remover should follow a due process and be transparent to the community
who elected him.
Olatunde Isaac
(User:Wikicology)
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
-----Original Message-----
From: wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
Sender: "Wikimedia-l" <wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org>Date: Tue, 29
Dec 2015 17:40:01
To: <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Reply-To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 141, Issue 97
Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
wikimedia-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Announcement about changes to the Board (rupert THURNER)
2. Re: Announcement about changes to the Board (Steinsplitter Wiki)
3. Re: Call for Board nominees (Pine W)
4. Re: Quality issues (Jane Darnell)
5. Re: Quality issues (Jane Darnell)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:51:14 +0100
From: rupert THURNER <rupert.thur...@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board
Message-ID:
<CAJs9aZ8RcYJc47N8qYoSzr7xqzXB6T-WktqVKNQ=hbgv_uu...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 4:00 PM, MZMcBride <z...@mzmcbride.com> wrote:
> issue here. This is hardly unusual. Regarding the removal itself, at least
> in the United States, it's fairly common for members of a body to be able
> to remove/expel one of their own. The Wikimedia Foundation Board of
> Trustees bylaws explicitly allow for removal of a member, with or without
> cause. Unlike in older Board resolutions, there's a clear public
> accounting of how each of the Board members voted (as opposed to simple
> numeric totals). James posted that he will work with Patricio to provide
like others on this thread i think the WMF bylaws are broken in this
respect. not legally broken, but morally. i'd love to vote for a
trustee, and i'd love to reverse my decision in case a sufficient
party is not happy. if in this case james does not want to have a
public discussion he is free to resign. if the board thinks it cannot
work with james anymore, and is able to remove him without him beeing
ok with it, without public discussion, then i do not find it
transparent.
best,
rupert
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:56:43 +0100
From: Steinsplitter Wiki <steinsplitter-w...@live.com>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board
Message-ID: <dub124-w19bf467a877c981d098121e6...@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The removal is not transparent at all.
Apart from that James was community elected. A democracy words different.
Very disappointing.
> From: rupert.thur...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:51:14 +0100
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 4:00 PM, MZMcBride <z...@mzmcbride.com> wrote:
> > issue here. This is hardly unusual. Regarding the removal itself, at least
> > in the United States, it's fairly common for members of a body to be able
> > to remove/expel one of their own. The Wikimedia Foundation Board of
> > Trustees bylaws explicitly allow for removal of a member, with or without
> > cause. Unlike in older Board resolutions, there's a clear public
> > accounting of how each of the Board members voted (as opposed to simple
> > numeric totals). James posted that he will work with Patricio to provide
>
> like others on this thread i think the WMF bylaws are broken in this
> respect. not legally broken, but morally. i'd love to vote for a
> trustee, and i'd love to reverse my decision in case a sufficient
> party is not happy. if in this case james does not want to have a
> public discussion he is free to resign. if the board thinks it cannot
> work with james anymore, and is able to remove him without him beeing
> ok with it, without public discussion, then i do not find it
> transparent.
>
> best,
> rupert
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 09:08:09 -0800
From: Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, Boryana
Dineva <bory...@wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Board nominees
Message-ID:
<CAF=dyjiadguryswufh97polnhxmaqkdbpnpfrzw2v6ybt+s...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi Board folks and Boryana,
Separate from the discussions about Doc James, can we get an update on the
appointment of new members?
Thanks,
Pine
On Sep 25, 2015 5:04 PM, "Boryana Dineva" <bory...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> As you may have heard, I joined the Wikimedia Foundation last Monday as the
> VP of Human Resources. I am so excited to be here and help to the best of
> my abilities.
>
> One of the projects that I am currently focusing on is adding two members
> to our board of trustees. I wanted to reach out to you and ask you to
> nominate candidates that you think should be considered.
>
> I am attaching a role description that will provide more insight into what
> the ideal candidates for these two board slots would be. If someone you
> know comes to mind, please send the name of the candidate including some
> information regarding why you think they would be great. Also let me know
> if you know that person is interested in the position and can afford the
> time commitment the role will require or if it’s someone you think may be
> great but are unsure if they are interested or would have time to commit.
>
> Please email nominations to board-nominati...@lists.wikimedia.org by next
> Wednesday, Sept 30th. I understand that this is a short notice and not much
> time to nominate, but we need to find someone that can start in Nov and we
> need to contact, screen, interview, etc before then.
>
> Thank you in advance for your nominations and have a wonderful weekend!
>
> Warmest regards,
> Boryana
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:33:47 +0100
From: Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quality issues
Message-ID:
<cafvca-er+zdtlhnu+yo+5_profm8fcspteau62s7j9d6n08...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Interesting link, thanks Gerard! I was referring to a citation for this
quote however:
"and a
> significant
> > selection of the information unsourced WikiDatas data lacks the quality,
> > integrity we all expect of ourselves when we add content to any of the
> > projects."
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> http://www.amnesty.nl/sites/default/files/public/ainl_guidelines_use_of_force.pdf
>
> On 29 December 2015 at 13:30, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > citation needed
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > This is when sources truly become vital. But do
> > > > remember, the POV of the USA and many of its sources are as suspect
> as
> > > > those from Kazakhstan.
> > >
> > >
> > > And that is why regardless of the fact a citation is so important,
> > >
> > > because the person receiving the information must able to make their
> own
> > > assessment of the sources reliability with a CC0 license and a
> > significant
> > > selection of the information unsourced WikiDatas data lacks the
> quality,
> > > integrity we all expect of ourselves when we add content to any of the
> > > projects.
> > >
> > > On 29 December 2015 at 20:15, Gerard Meijssen <
> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hoi,
> > > > So you have determined that people can be manipulated. Good, then
> what?
> > > >
> > > > If this is the tack that you take you will be grounded because there
> is
> > > no
> > > > plan. It is a negative attitude that only stifles. Quality is not
> only
> > in
> > > > sources, sources can be and are manipulations in their own right.
> Many
> > > > important subjects are woefully underrepresented. The argument has it
> > > that
> > > > it is because of a lack of sources..
> > > >
> > > > Sources are relevant but we only are interested in particular
> subjects.
> > > We
> > > > do not need to look at Kazakhstan to find fault. Amnest (reliable
> > source)
> > > > indicates that all USA police forces are not in compliance with
> > > > international agreements on the use of force. NOW WHAT ??
> > > >
> > > > When quality is the subject, it is important to decide how we
> > effectively
> > > > improve quality. VIAF provided Wikidata with a list of issues they
> > found.
> > > > Tom checked it out and our quality is better as a result. It means
> that
> > > > more information is linked for people who visit a library. When
> awards
> > > are
> > > > known, adding known recipients in Wikidata based on info from
> multiple
> > > > Wikipedias improves the quality and in this way many incorrect links
> > are
> > > > exposed.
> > > >
> > > > When quality of our projects is the subject, decide how we can do a
> > > better
> > > > job. When Facebook invites companies to manipulate people, it is why
> > > > Facebook information is suspect. At most it is a reminder that
> > > manipulation
> > > > is an important issue. It does not mean that people cannot add data
> on
> > > > their hobby horse.
> > > >
> > > > Quality is important but quality is more than sources. When sources
> are
> > > > used as an argument that is detrimental to the quality of Wikidata,
> > then
> > > in
> > > > my opinion we have forgotten why Wikipedia was possible in the first
> > > place.
> > > > It was not because of sources, it was because of the web of
> information
> > > we
> > > > created, a web that is of a NPOV.
> > > >
> > > > Wikidata does not have a NPOV. It represents facts found in many
> > places.
> > > As
> > > > the information becomes more extended, it becomes possible to find
> > > > manipulations, errors. This is when sources truly become vital. But
> do
> > > > remember, the POV of the USA and many of its sources are as suspect
> as
> > > > those from Kazakhstan.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > GerardM
> > > >
> > > > On 29 December 2015 at 11:44, Lilburne <lilbu...@tygers-of-wrath.net
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 28/12/2015 18:00, Jane Darnell wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> All I said is that the wiki way works, that's all. You can't hide
> it
> > > > when
> > > > >> someone tries to take over a project, and that is the reason we
> > > > shouldn't
> > > > >> try to anticipate that with convoluted strategies. "Assume Good
> > Faith"
> > > > >> will
> > > > >> always win out over any strange misguided takeover strategy, which
> > is
> > > > why
> > > > >> governments that intend to do such things choose nowadays to just
> > > block
> > > > >> wikimedia altogether. It is not our wake-up call to take, but that
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > >> Kazakh people.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > > Facebook showed the other year that it could manipulate people by
> > what
> > > it
> > > > > showed them in their feeds.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10932534/Facebook-conducted-secret-psychology-experiment-on-users-emotions.html
> > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28051930
> > > > >
> > > > > They didn't do this for fun, they did it to show their clients
> > > > > (advertisers, governments) that they could manipulate millions of
> > > people.
> > > > > You only need a small push in one direction or another to
> influence a
> > > > large
> > > > > population. Doesn't matter if the push is to buy a particular soap,
> > > vote
> > > > > one way or another, or how you see a particular minority, or issue.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.networkworld.com/article/2450825/big-data-business-intelligence/facebooks-icky-psychology-experiment-is-actually-business-as-usual.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Do it to a naively trusted source and you have a triple word score
> > > > > jackpot^H^H^Hboot.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > GN.
> > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:39:58 +0100
From: Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quality issues
Message-ID:
<CAFVcA-F3-G-4n6994=w9ou_lxwgnr4cocsuhs7rilfwyjpq...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
...and you seem to think one can live by an encyclopedia. I can assure you,
Wikipedia is a lot of things, but it is not a way of life. To answer your
fear which I read between the lines of what you are saying, in order to
create a Wikipedia project you need a basic list of 10,000 articles. The
list as I am sure you are aware, is a pretty boring and strangely ordered
grouping of fairly dry, non-political subjects. I believe there are very
few articles on there that are worth firebombing someone over. [[Michael
Jackson]] is on the list, among other notable Americans. Granted, you could
get past the 10,000 article startup requirement somehow and then start
creating lots of POV articles, but once you do this you will soon be
discovered. There is just no way to hide it.
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Lilburne <lilbu...@tygers-of-wrath.net>
> wrote:
>
> > On 28/12/2015 18:00, Jane Darnell wrote:
> >
> >> All I said is that the wiki way works, that's all. You can't hide it
> when
> >> someone tries to take over a project, and that is the reason we
> shouldn't
> >> try to anticipate that with convoluted strategies. "Assume Good Faith"
> >> will
> >> always win out over any strange misguided takeover strategy, which is
> why
> >> governments that intend to do such things choose nowadays to just block
> >> wikimedia altogether. It is not our wake-up call to take, but that of
> the
> >> Kazakh people.
> >>
> >>
> > Facebook showed the other year that it could manipulate people by what it
> > showed them in their feeds.
> >
> >
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10932534/Facebook-conducted-secret-psychology-experiment-on-users-emotions.html
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28051930
> >
> > They didn't do this for fun, they did it to show their clients
> > (advertisers, governments) that they could manipulate millions of people.
> > You only need a small push in one direction or another to influence a
> large
> > population. Doesn't matter if the push is to buy a particular soap, vote
> > one way or another, or how you see a particular minority, or issue.
> >
> >
> http://www.networkworld.com/article/2450825/big-data-business-intelligence/facebooks-icky-psychology-experiment-is-actually-business-as-usual.html
> >
> > Do it to a naively trusted source and you have a triple word score
> > jackpot^H^H^Hboot.
>
>
>
> I thought Epstein's and Robertson's paper, "The search engine manipulation
> effect (SEME) and its possible impact on the outcomes of elections", was
> very interesting as well:
>
>
> http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/how-google-could-rig-the-2016-election-121548
>
> http://www.pnas.org/content/112/33/E4512.abstract
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Well the chances of me being firebombed while on vacation in the states
> are
> > probably higher than me being firebombed for editing Wikipedia, but that
> > still doesn't mean we need to worry about changing the wiki model. I
> guess
> > I have lost the thread of your point entirely now.
>
>
>
> To be honest, I don't think you had ever gotten hold of it in the first
> place. To me, you seem to live in a very sheltered and naive world.
>
> If we have reports of Wikipedians being tortured in Azerbaijan (and there
> seems to have been some truth to these reports, as the sysop named in them
> was globally blocked by the WMF a short while later[1]), you should be able
> to understand that it is not quite as easy to live the wiki way there as it
> is in your country, and that some of the assumptions you have formed based
> on your own experiences of the wiki model may not hold in other locales.
>
> [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Irada&diff=12421543&oldid=7322889
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
------------------------------
End of Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 141, Issue 97
********************************************
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
