My vote is for a web forum.
Why?
Because I'm a wine user, not a developer. I subscribed to this mailing list
because I had a question about wine installation/use/errors (or whatever)
and not because I wanted to read every single message going back and forth
about wine, that does not relate to me
On Monday 24 April 2006 04:50 am, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin
Navea) wrote:
> n0dalus wrote:
> > In a way this holds for mailing lists as well, but I think
> > the difference is that forums usually have:
> > - Large sections containing non-technical discussion
> > - 'Post counts', often used
Joseph Garvin wrote:
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 17:30 +0200, Molle Bestefich wrote:
I'd like to know exactly what it is that people find so convenient about forums.
A lot. If forums are made, they should be user, not developer, targeted.
Normal users, as opposed to power hackers, prefer fo
n0dalus wrote:
On 4/24/06, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Fine whatever.. Personally I dont like having to keep an irc client
open, but i would be more inclined to do so if we had our own server...
Then we could do java irc from one of the websit
Joseph Garvin wrote:
> 1. They can bookmark forum posts.
>
> 2. Webmail interfaces are very popular but often suck at threading
> mailing lists.
Good points.
> 3. phpbb has become so widespread that signing up for a forum is
> something that they know how to do and are familiar with.
>
> 4. phpbb
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 17:30 +0200, Molle Bestefich wrote:
> I'd like to know exactly what it is that people find so convenient about
> forums.
A lot. If forums are made, they should be user, not developer, targeted.
Normal users, as opposed to power hackers, prefer forums for a variety
of reason
Le lundi 24 avril 2006 à 06:55 -0500, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin
Navea) a écrit :
> How do you propsose I access the NNTP threads? My ISP's news server has
> been down forever, and as far as I can tell, google only lets you access
> the newsgroups thru the browser thru their site..
Just u
> I don't see developers (well, except me sometimes) going onto these forums
Should have read everything first I should have said developers
except me and Scott :)
thanks -mike
> Now, I'm not high on crystal meth or anything, but I'll just assume
> for a moment that we all want better accessibility for the newcomers
> (even with the rise in volume that they bring), and that all agree to
> go with solution 3 :-). Thus I'll try to outline a battle plan:
Well, my own opini
Jonathan Ernst wrote:
Le dimanche 23 avril 2006 à 12:41 -0500, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker,
Dustin Navea) a écrit :
But I still want to get certain threads delivered to my mailbox, so I
suffer thru all the ones I don't read. Where if I subscribe to a forum
thread, then I get all posts to that
n0dalus wrote:
On 4/24/06, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Fine whatever.. Personally I dont like having to keep an irc client
open, but i would be more inclined to do so if we had our own server...
Then we could do java irc from one of the website's servers
n0dalus wrote:
On 4/24/06, deedee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Forums can tend towards cliques. So-called "popular" forums,
especially, can have this quality -- because popularity
frequently equates to regulars who always show up and post.
In a way this holds for mailing lists as well, b
Molle Bestefich wrote:
Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea) wrote:
If solution 3 ever takes off, I will gladly contribute with coding.
Realistically, though, i cannot implement something like this all by
myself, especially not in any kind of a timely fashion.
I can contrib some cod
Jeremy Newman wrote:
On Sun, 2006-04-23 at 11:40 -0500, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin
Navea) wrote:
It doesn't make sense to not have a universal login for the entire site,
and even you complain about it.. Just curious, but why are we not able
to fix that?
Nobody has taken up the
Le dimanche 23 avril 2006 à 12:41 -0500, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker,
Dustin Navea) a écrit :
> But I still want to get certain threads delivered to my mailbox, so I
> suffer thru all the ones I don't read. Where if I subscribe to a forum
> thread, then I get all posts to that thread in my mailbox
On 4/24/06, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Fine whatever.. Personally I dont like having to keep an irc client
> open, but i would be more inclined to do so if we had our own server...
> Then we could do java irc from one of the website's servers, making
> anot
Kai Blin wrote:
* "Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [23/04/06,
13:00:51]:
See directly below.. People see all of these choices on where to go to
get help, but dont like any of them (dont want to be flooded with
emails, dont want to search the archives, or it isn
On 4/24/06, deedee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Forums can tend towards cliques. So-called "popular" forums,
> especially, can have this quality -- because popularity
> frequently equates to regulars who always show up and post.
In a way this holds for mailing lists as well, but I think the
diff
Jeff Vian wrote:
How about the ability to post/read/respond to messages even when you're
not at your own computer? Many people on Yahoo Groups, for instance,
don't even have a computer at home and access their groups from works or
library computers. To my mind, this is probably the most import
>Newsgroups might be too technical to engage in for newcomers, >especially if they're already *very* busy trying to make this new
>software they've downloaded (Wine) work and everything's failing right >and left around their ears with odd 'FontForge' messages, >seh_exception overflows and what not
Hi all,
Having been on a lot of forums and mailing lists, I definitely
prefer mailing lists. I've read the various pros and cons of both
with interest here. Frankly, I've never found it a problem to do
everything people say is great with forums with mailing lists --
and I do a lot of traveling
> The 'category' thing sounds tricky to implement on top of a mailing> list (as I would like it)...
Yes, categories are nice.Sorry for sneaking into the conversation again. When I saw the Wine Wiki, I was disappointed that the app db wasn't integrated into it. It seemed like the thing to do, from a
Philippe A. wrote:
> When I saw the Wine Wiki, I was disappointed that the app db wasn't
> integrated into it.
There does seem to be a lot of stale information in there.
Maybe a Wiki would be better suited for the AppDB than the current forum.
A forum there is fine too, but exposing it like it is
Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea) wrote:
> > If solution 3 ever takes off, I will gladly contribute with coding.
> > Realistically, though, i cannot implement something like this all by
> > myself, especially not in any kind of a timely fashion.
>
> I can contrib some code (need to start lear
Philippe A. wrote:
> I stayed away from them for a very long time, until I came across Google
> Groups. Google taps so well into newsgroups that now I think all mailing
> lists of the world should be turned into a newsgroup :-)
>
> (Note I keep advocating this suggestion because I'm quite convinced
On Sun, 2006-04-23 at 11:40 -0500, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin
Navea) wrote:
> It doesn't make sense to not have a universal login for the entire site,
> and even you complain about it.. Just curious, but why are we not able
> to fix that?
Nobody has taken up the task of trying to figure
* "Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [23/04/06,
13:00:51]:
> See directly below.. People see all of these choices on where to go to
> get help, but dont like any of them (dont want to be flooded with
> emails, dont want to search the archives, or it isnt in the archiv
Kai Blin wrote:
* "Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [23/04/06,
11:40:39]:
Yes you do, but personally I hate the appdb, and im rarely ever going to
pull up irc even though it is installed, because i dont like having to
switch networks back and forth.
[...]
Peter Åstrand wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea) wrote:
You can't reply to the archives.. you still have to sign up for the
mailing list. I don't like having my inbox flooded with emails from
the devel and bugs lists. If I go to a forum, I see a topic once an
Dimi Paun wrote:
On Sat, April 22, 2006 9:45 pm, Molle Bestefich said:
Can you explain what's so different between Google and a forum search?
That's pretty obvious: the Google search is just a lot better.
Remember when we used to offer our own search on WineHQ? It
sucked so badly it wa
Molle Bestefich wrote:
Scott Ritchie wrote:
This makes perfect sense to me: I _hate_ mailing lists, especially the
kind that I have to subscribe to in order to post - it's far easier to
run a search on a web forum (rather than googling the list archives),
Can you explain what's so diff
* "Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [23/04/06,
11:40:39]:
> Yes you do, but personally I hate the appdb, and im rarely ever going to
> pull up irc even though it is installed, because i dont like having to
> switch networks back and forth.
[...]
> I'm sure that the
Segin wrote:
Why aren't I offering suggestions? I did offer one. The rest are
beyond our control. To attempt to fix those would be as intelligent as
sticking your hand into a boiling pot of water.
Let's look at that last one, the sticky thing. This usually means to
have a email highlighted in
Molle Bestefich wrote:
Hi
I've tried to sum up the problems with the wine-users mailing list
that are urging many people to call for a forum.winehq.org.
I hope it's useful.
Problems
1) Cannot post without configured mail client
2) Browsing old topics and replying/posting new ones
Jeremy Newman wrote:
Currently the WineHQ server really does not have much space left over.
Alexandre and I have had a few issues with the box running out of hard
drive space.
I offered space on my box, so space shouldn't be an issue.
We need to know if this is really needed. Is providing a
On 4/23/06, Segin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I thought I set it to plaintext for Wine-devel... maybe it's doing both
> plain and HTML At any rate, I never used "stupid" HTML (god awful
> colors/fonts/font sizes)
>
Gmail now seems to be activating html automatically in reply of
someone sendin
>Hi Philippe,
>
>Interesting post :-).
>I don't have time right now to answer all the pros you mention for
>newsgroups, so I'll just throw in a couple of things that I think is
>flawed in your suggestion (rude, perhaps! sorry!).
>
>Philippe A. wrote:
I guess you know what newsgroups are, and tha
Vitaliy Margolen wrote:
Saturday, April 22, 2006, 4:14:28 PM, Segin wrote:
Actually, it seems most users like to send messages via their
emailclient, but like in another email i sent, they also resent their
emailclients for lack of pretty graphics, colors, and the mailing
listrestr
On 4/23/06, Molle Bestefich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Solution 3: WebForum-on-top-of-List
>
>
> Pros:
>) We concentrate people, allowing web and email users to communicate.
>) We concentrate (archived) knowledge in one place.
>
> Cons:
>) The
> > Mailing lists are searchable, but harder than a forum to search.
> > Forums let you search by any of text, title, author, date, category,
>
> Ok, that sounds nice.
>
> The 'category' thing sounds tricky to implement on top of a mailing
> list (as I would like it)...
Yes, categories are nice.
>
You see Google Groups as something very Google-specific and you don't like it. This is maybe because you don't know what Google Groups is? I will try demystifying Google Groups a bit for our readers. I guess you know what newsgroups are, and that they existed before Google. What Google did is to in
Jeremy Newman wrote:
Currently the WineHQ server really does not have much space left over.
Alexandre and I have had a few issues with the box running out of hard
drive space.
To be honest if i would be you i wouldn't want to have the forum on the
WineHQ server. The forum softwares are know for
Hi Philippe,
Interesting post :-).
I don't have time right now to answer all the pros you mention for
newsgroups, so I'll just throw in a couple of things that I think is
flawed in your suggestion (rude, perhaps! sorry!).
Philippe A. wrote:
> I guess you know what newsgroups are, and that they e
Btw,
comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine still exists and is used
as a forum just fine.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine
Instant Web Forum, just add water.
ciao, Marcus
* Sterling Christensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [22/04/06, 16:10:06]:
> Lots of forums support RSS, and you can "subscribe" to a topic - two
> ways for forum posts to come to you.
Which will fill my mailbox just like a mailing list does, just that it
only says "Someone replied to your forum post. Go t
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea) wrote:
You can't reply to the archives.. you still have to sign up for the mailing
list. I don't like having my inbox flooded with emails from the devel and
bugs lists. If I go to a forum, I see a topic once and read all of the post
On Sun, 2006-04-23 at 04:54 +0200, KGJ wrote:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I'm using debian unstable. Can I use the new APT repository? I'm sorry
> to ask such a dumb question but I don't have any idea of Ubuntu and I
> currently see only Ubuntu packages there. Else it would be nice to
> have the debian
Hello,
Molle Bestefich wrote:
Scott Ritchie wrote:
This makes perfect sense to me: I _hate_ mailing lists, especially the
kind that I have to subscribe to in order to post - it's far easier to
run a search on a web forum (rather than googling the list archives),
Can you
On Sat, April 22, 2006 9:45 pm, Molle Bestefich said:
> Can you explain what's so different between Google and a forum search?
That's pretty obvious: the Google search is just a lot better.
Remember when we used to offer our own search on WineHQ? It
sucked so badly it wasn't even funny. I'm prett
Sterling Christensen wrote:
> Lots of forums support RSS, and you can "subscribe" to a topic
> - two ways for forum posts to come to you.
Those are definitely nice features.
> There are lots of people who prefer forums. Everything seems so much
> easier to me with a proper modern forum. There is
Scott Ritchie wrote:
> This makes perfect sense to me: I _hate_ mailing lists, especially the
> kind that I have to subscribe to in order to post - it's far easier to
> run a search on a web forum (rather than googling the list archives),
Can you explain what's so different between Google and a fo
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 13:17 -0500, Jeremy Newman wrote:
> Currently the WineHQ server really does not have much space left over.
> Alexandre and I have had a few issues with the box running out of hard
> drive space.
Well, you're in luck: we have all the disk space and bandwidth we need
on the new
Lots of forums support RSS, and you can "subscribe" to a topic - two
ways for forum posts to come to you.
There are lots of people who prefer forums. Everything seems so much
easier to me with a proper modern forum. There is so much that's just
impossible on a mailing list.
Mailing lists are sear
For Wine, stickies would be useful for questions that keep getting
asked very frequently. Asnwer it once then sticky it. That way others
thinking of asking the same question will see the stick instead for
weeks, months to come - until you decide there are too many stickies
and unstick it.
Forums g
2006/4/22, Sterling Christensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
For Wine, stickies would be useful for questions that keep gettingasked very frequently. Asnwer it once then sticky it. That way othersthinking of asking the same question will see the stick instead forweeks, months to come - until you decide the
>* ... What else?>How about the ability to post/read/respond to messages even when you're
not at your own computer? Many people on Yahoo Groups, for instance,don't even have a computer at home and access their groups from works orlibrary computers. To my mind, this is probably the most important
Tom Spear (Dustin Booker, Dustin Navea) wrote:
Molle Bestefich wrote:
David Shaw wrote:
Actually, "sticky" posts are ones that don't or can't get deleted
No, its not that they get deleted, but under a category, with time the
posts that aren't sticky are at the bottom of the pile (page 3
Molle Bestefich wrote:
Paul wrote:
No seriously, I don't have the time to spend going out and monitoring a
dozen forums. I find mail lists much more convenient ... the
information comes to me, I don't have to go to the information.
I feel the same.
I'd like to know exactly what it is
Saturday, April 22, 2006, 4:14:28 PM, Segin wrote:
> Actually, it seems most users like to send messages via their
> emailclient, but like in another email i sent, they also resent their
> emailclients for lack of pretty graphics, colors, and the mailing
> listrestriction on annoying HTML markup (n
Actually, it seems most users like to send messages via their email
client, but like in another email i sent, they also resent their email
clients for lack of pretty graphics, colors, and the mailing list
restriction on annoying HTML markup (namely none allowed) which if you
look at it, is real
On 4/22/06, Segin <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Why aren't I offering suggestions? I did offer one. The rest are beyond
our control. To attempt to fix those would be as intelligent as
sticking your hand into a boiling pot of water.
Let's look at that last one, the sticky thing. This usua
Why aren't I offering suggestions? I did offer one. The rest are beyond
our control. To attempt to fix those would be as intelligent as
sticking your hand into a boiling pot of water.
Let's look at that last one, the sticky thing. This usually means to
have a email highlighted in a way that it
On 4/22/06, Segin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello, I have noted below problems that we can take care of, and thosethat aren't our problem, never were, never will be, impossible to be ourproblem, (you get the picture), because they are PEBKAC errors :)
For all of those that don't know: PEBKAC = Pro
Hello, I have noted below problems that we can take care of, and those
that aren't our problem, never were, never will be, impossible to be our
problem, (you get the picture), because they are PEBKAC errors :)
For all of those that don't know: PEBKAC = Problem Exists Between
Keyboard and Chair
Hi
I've tried to sum up the problems with the wine-users mailing list
that are urging many people to call for a forum.winehq.org.
I hope it's useful.
Problems
1) Cannot post without configured mail client
2) Browsing old topics and replying/posting new ones happen in two
different p
Mike Hearn wrote:
>> Worse still, if a particular web forum goes offline, all its
>> content is lost; not so for mailing lists, which are archived
>> in multiple locations and so are much more reliable and long-lived.
>
> If you mean archived in peoples inboxes, then I'd argue that this is
> really
Currently the WineHQ server really does not have much space left over.
Alexandre and I have had a few issues with the box running out of hard
drive space.
We need to know if this is really needed. Is providing a forum really
better than: a good FAQ in the Wiki, the forums in the AppDB, Bugzilla,
t
Hello,
I like mailing lists more than forums. But I think most "normal"
computer users have a different view. That's why I like the idea of a
wine forum.
n0dalus wrote:
On 4/22/06, Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I don't like web interfaces!
No seriously, I don't have the time
Molle Bestefich wrote:
David Shaw wrote:
Actually, "sticky" posts are ones that don't or can't get deleted
Aha. So people usually delete posts from bulletin boards after some time?
Who decides what gets deleted, an administrator or the postee, time, or?...
That's a feature that would
Mike Hearn wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:49:15 -0700, Dan Kegel wrote:
I dislike the thought of having to monitor multiple forums.
Well, it's not like non-forumers would be banned or anything :)
Worse still, if a particular web forum goes offline, all its
content is lost; not so f
Molle Bestefich wrote:
Paul wrote:
No seriously, I don't have the time to spend going out and monitoring a
dozen forums. I find mail lists much more convenient ... the
information comes to me, I don't have to go to the information.
I feel the same.
I'd like to know exactly what it is
Mike Hearn wrote:
> Obviously _some_ people post to wine-users, but judging from other
> projects I'd expect there to be a lot of others who don't, simply
> because they're not comfortable with mailing lists as an interface.
When I first tried Wine many a year ago, it didn't work.
I saw there was
David Shaw wrote:
> Actually, "sticky" posts are ones that don't or can't get deleted
Aha. So people usually delete posts from bulletin boards after some time?
Who decides what gets deleted, an administrator or the postee, time, or?...
That's a feature that would be very hard to implement as a w
Segin wrote:
> People get upset with me cause I won't reveal my real name,
That, or maybe just because you act like an asshole :-).
n0dalus wrote:
> Some ideas:
> - Threads get shown in usual bulletin board style
What exactly is that?
I agree that the pipermail interface is nothing short of abs
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:49:15 -0700, Dan Kegel wrote:
> I dislike the thought of having to monitor multiple forums.
Well, it's not like non-forumers would be banned or anything :)
> Worse still, if a particular web forum goes offline, all its
> content is lost; not so for mailing lists, which are
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:57:48 -0500, Paul wrote:
> I don't like web interfaces!
>
> No seriously, I don't have the time to spend going out and monitoring a
> dozen forums. I find mail lists much more convenient ... the
> information comes to me, I don't have to go to the information.
That's a var
n0dalus wrote:
On 4/22/06, Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I don't like web interfaces!
No seriously, I don't have the time to spend going out and monitoring a
dozen forums. I find mail lists much more convenient ... the
information comes to me, I don't have to go to the informat
Molle Bestefich wrote:
Paul wrote:
No seriously, I don't have the time to spend going out and monitoring a
dozen forums. I find mail lists much more convenient ... the
information comes to me, I don't have to go to the information.
I feel the same.
I'd like to know exac
Paul wrote:
> No seriously, I don't have the time to spend going out and monitoring a
> dozen forums. I find mail lists much more convenient ... the
> information comes to me, I don't have to go to the information.
I feel the same.
I'd like to know exactly what it is that people find so convenien
On 4/22/06, Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I don't like web interfaces!
>
> No seriously, I don't have the time to spend going out and monitoring a
> dozen forums. I find mail lists much more convenient ... the
> information comes to me, I don't have to go to the information.
>
We could alwa
Dan Kegel wrote:
Mike Hearn wrote:
[Let's set up web forums for wine users]
I dislike the thought of having to monitor multiple forums.
Worse still, if a particular web forum goes offline, all its
content is lost; not so for mailing lists, which are archived
in multiple locations and s
On 4/22/06, Dan Kegel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If your goal is to make sure that the average person can
> get answers to his or her questions about Wine, that's
> a noble enterprise. I would prefer a solution that doesn't
> have the reliability and usability problems of the current crop of
>
Mike Hearn wrote:
> [Let's set up web forums for wine users]
I dislike the thought of having to monitor multiple forums.
Worse still, if a particular web forum goes offline, all its
content is lost; not so for mailing lists, which are archived
in multiple locations and so are much more reliable an
Mike Hearn wrote:
Many projects, including large ones such as Gentoo, provide web forums for
their users. The benefits are:
* Users can help each other
* Sometimes developers may read it and:
* Be able to help users too
* Learn what difficulties people are facing
* Many people seem to prefe
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 14:39 +0100, Mike Hearn wrote:
> Many projects, including large ones such as Gentoo, provide web forums for
> their users. The benefits are:
>
> * Users can help each other
>
> * Sometimes developers may read it and:
> * Be able to help users too
> * Learn what difficult
On Sat, 2006-04-22 at 14:39 +0100, Mike Hearn wrote:
> Many projects, including large ones such as Gentoo, provide web forums for
> their users. The benefits are:
>
> * Users can help each other
>
> * Sometimes developers may read it and:
> * Be able to help users too
> * Learn what difficult
Many projects, including large ones such as Gentoo, provide web forums for
their users. The benefits are:
* Users can help each other
* Sometimes developers may read it and:
* Be able to help users too
* Learn what difficulties people are facing
* Many people seem to prefer the web interface
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