Here is why I'm bummed about this. Like other people who have posted
- after years of coding perl for money, I have vowed never to do it
again. (I find that it produces encourages unmaintainable code.)
Also, I think my main marketable skill now is Zope. So, were I to
want to find a different j
- Original Message -
From: "Roman Milner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 1:48 PM
Subject: [Zope] Re: [Zope-Annce] ANN: Perl For Zope - why I'm bummed
> Here is why I'm bummed about this. Like other people
> "KD" == Kevin Dangoor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
KD> I think Zope offers a ton of features that I wouldn't want to
KD> give up. (And I've been watching what the other servers out
KD> there are doing, and I still appreciate the power given by
KD> Zope.)
I don't question at
Kevin Dangoor wrote:
>
>
> I haven't heard of anyone standing up and saying "I'm not going to use
> Linux, because people might write tools in perl [or awk, or C, or lisp, or
> sh, or yacc or postscript, or ...]" Perhaps that's a better way to look at
> Zope... not as a python web application, b
> "HK" == Hannu Krosing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
HK> Some of its most significant features (Aquiition,
HK> ExtensionClass) are even written in C and mess with guts of
HK> python interpreter.
HK> See for example PostgreSQL - it has C, SQL, PL/SQL, TCL, Perl,
HK> Ruby an
On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote:
> Well, my point is that I don't think you will be able to ignore it.
> Your boss will give you a product to maintain that includes someone
> else's perl code - sooner or later. Since it is "part of zope" and you
> clearly "know zope" you should be able to mai
> "KM" == Ken Manheimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
KM> I have some misgivings with this outlook. It sounds like
KM> people who seek job security by having expertise with a system
KM> that closes out unfamiliar options - whether the options are
KM> better or worse.
I'm not i
Actually, I'd like to see Zope interface with "more" languages (Java, C++
etc.) There are a number of areas that Python performs poorly (I'd prefer
to write encryption algorithms in C, personally) and there are areas where
Python performs very well (OO modelling). I think if people are upset tha
On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote:
> > "KM" == Ken Manheimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> KM> I have some misgivings with this outlook. It sounds like
> KM> people who seek job security by having expertise with a system
> KM> that closes out unfamiliar options - whether the
>>> Ken Manheimer wrote
> (Do you think the perl folks are, conversely, going to feel they have
> to know python? I have to say, i esteem python enough to think that
> the ultimate result will be increasing prevalence and preference for
> python.)
I think it's fair to say that I'm not one of per
+[ Roman Milner ]-
|
| Well, I don't think that analogy applies directly. People will ask,
| "do you know zope", and in order to say yes - I will need to know
| perl. The answer "yes except for the perl bits" won't fly with an
| employer.
|
| Linu
Roman Milner wrote:
> For zope, you will just have to
> "know zope" - employers will see "zope" and a language just like
> parents see "understanding computers" as knowing how to fix their windows
> boxes :)
I feel like I "know zope", but I don't have a deep understanding of
python, or a compreh
> Actually, I'd like to see Zope interface with "more" languages (Java, C++
> etc.) There are a number of areas that Python performs poorly (I'd prefer
> to write encryption algorithms in C, personally) and there are areas where
> Python performs very well (OO modelling). I think if people are u
Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
[...]
> The sad fact of the matter is that there is more concern for people's
> personal welfare, than that of the project as a whole. When in fact, what
> is good for Zope is good for the community.
>
> Zope is open source, if you don't like Perl, and it morally of
On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote:
> Here is why I'm bummed about this. Like other people who have posted
> - after years of coding perl for money, I have vowed never to do it
> again. (I find that it produces encourages unmaintainable code.)
> Also, I think my main marketable skill now is Zope
+[ Oleg Broytmann ]-
|
| > So, I believe this is enough reason for me to start considering other
| > web technologies for me, and my company.
|
|I am considering dismounting the Zope bandwagon, too :( It was good
| techonology, but what will com
On Sat, 27 May 2000, Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
> | > So, I believe this is enough reason for me to start considering other
> | > web technologies for me, and my company.
> |
> |I am considering dismounting the Zope bandwagon, too :( It was good
> | techonology, but what will come?
>
> Whe
Ken Manheimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 25 May 2000, Roman Milner wrote:
>
> > Well, my point is that I don't think you will be able to ignore it.
> > Your boss will give you a product to maintain that includes someone
> > else's perl code - sooner or later.
My boss isn't going to sudden
On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 02:55:52PM +, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
>Thanks goodness, I am not using Zope on production servers. I use Zope
> only to experiments and understand the technology. Looked good until
> yesterday.
>On production servers I use pure Python CGIs powered by ZTemplates. I
Roman wrote:
> Perhaps this is a disadvantage to the DC company-owned open-source
> project model. They will make bad decisions based on potential
> profit.
I wanted to address this specifically.
This is, in the abstract, a legitimate concern that comes up repeatedly
about Netscape/Mozilla.
Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> > Where do you intend on going? If there was something better out there
> > you'd be humping its leg already.
>
>Thanks goodness, I am not using Zope on production servers. I use Zope
> only to experiments and understand the technology. Looked good until
> yesterday.
Martijn Pieters wrote:
[snip]
> Now, please, can we stop this whole silly argument? Can't we talk about old
> terminal types or something, instead?
That invocation only works on comp.lang.python. :)
Regards,
Martijn
___
Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROT
Paul Everitt wrote:
[snip]
> As the person that made the decision, I can at least testify that no
> ulterior motives were behind it. Still, Zope is a community thing, and
> we here at DC need our heads bopped on a regular basis, lest we ever
> forget it.
>
> Consider our heads bopped. :^)
And t
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