On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Anthony Baxter wrote:
>
> >>> Jerome Alet wrote
> > I personnally would love to see both Python and Zope be GPLed.
>
> Why? No really. Exactly what do you gain from this? Assuming Zope's
> license becomes GPL compatible, any packages you release you can choose
> to GPL. Why
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jerome Alet wrote:
> For Zope it's not sure, but for Python, as well as for all what people
> usually call "open source" languages, the license of choice should be
> the GPL, or at least the LGPL, in order for the language in question
> to not become bastardized by some power
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Erik Enge wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jerome Alet wrote:
>
> > For Zope it's not sure, but for Python, as well as for all what people
> > usually call "open source" languages, the license of choice should be
> > the GPL, or at least the LGPL, in order for the language in q
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jerome Alet wrote:
> Java comes to mind, guess who is the "powerful entity" ;-)
:)
I really can't see that Java has been bastardized by it, though.
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Erik Enge wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jerome Alet wrote:
>
> > Java comes to mind, guess who is the "powerful entity" ;-)
>
> I really can't see that Java has been bastardized by it, though.
I was told that some java programs only run under windows, that's what I
called
Hello Zopistas,
thank'you all for your replies.
Our doubts still unresolved :-(
With a clever hack that Toby Dickenson made on the very useful tranalyzer,
we was able to see what happen
when we add or catalog an object. (BTW, we don't use CatalogAware).
We can send the output of tranalyzer2 to
Hi Giovanni,
How many indexes do you have, what are the index types, and what do they
index? Likewise, what about metadata? In your last message, you said
there's about 20. That's a heck of a lot of indexes. Do you need them
all?
I can see a potential reason for the problem you explain as "
Chris McDonough wrote:
>
> Shane's BTreeFolder Product attempts to ameliorate this problem a bit by
> keeping the data that is normally stored in the _objects tuple in its
> own persistent object (a btree).
>
> Are you breaking the content up into subfolders? This is recommended.
Do you still
Chris Withers wrote:
>
> Chris McDonough wrote:
> >
> > Shane's BTreeFolder Product attempts to ameliorate this problem a bit by
> > keeping the data that is normally stored in the _objects tuple in its
> > own persistent object (a btree).
> >
> > Are you breaking the content up into subfolders?
Chris McDonough wrote:
>
> It doesn't hurt, but likely no. If at all, you'd want to do it so
> management interface views would be sane.
>
> Then again, I've never actually used BTreeFolder. ;-)
Ah, you should, it's great :-)
The management interface is different, so you don't have problems
Hi Chris,
I don't think this is a problem of ObjectManager, also if it contribute to
the bloating.
We do breaks the content in subfolders, but our subfolders easily grows to
contains some hundred objects.
Do you think that the number of indexes contribute to the bloating? If this
is important,
I use 2.3.3 with python 1.5.2 on freebsd 3
I'm not so picky about bloating, but adding a document of 1K adds some 400K,
and keeps growing.
How much eat for you (I know you cataloged some 50K documents)?
-giovanni
- Original Message -
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Zo
Well, I'm not sure, unfortunately. I just wanted to get an idea of
what kinds of indexes you had. The tranalyzer output doesn't mean too
much to me, because it shows BTree buckets and such getting updated,
which is completely understandable... there are at least two data
structures in the Catal
Hi Giovanni, Chris and all others,
Chris McDonough wrote:
>
> Hi Giovanni,
>
> How many indexes do you have, what are the index types, and what do they
> index? Likewise, what about metadata? In your last message, you said
> there's about 20. That's a heck of a lot of indexes. Do you need t
Hi everybody.
I'm (trying) to work with Opera, because I love it's speed,
the problem is, from time to time, a request from opera,
(seems to raise on POST only) causes Zope to eat all ram
it can get and all cpu available.
I tried to check out and found following data:
it only rises on POST requ
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Giovanni Maruzzelli wrote:
> I'm not so picky about bloating, but adding a document of 1K adds some
> 400K, and keeps growing.
:
> How much eat for you (I know you cataloged some 50K documents)?
I can't remember, but surely not that much. I had some 30.000 documents
that w
Chris McDonough Wrote:
> CatalogAware is arguably broken and should really not be used.
> In the meantime, if you care at all about cataloging, do not use
> CatalogAware. Instead, manage the recataloging yourself and don't
> uncatalog a changed object before recataloging it during this manual
>
Eric Roby wrote:
>
> Chris McDonough Wrote:
> > CatalogAware is arguably broken and should really not be used.
>
> > In the meantime, if you care at all about cataloging, do not use
> > CatalogAware. Instead, manage the recataloging yourself and don't
> > uncatalog a changed object before recat
> "JA" == Jerome Alet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
JA> For Zope it's not sure, but for Python, as well as for all
JA> what people usually call "open source" languages, the license
JA> of choice should be the GPL, or at least the LGPL, in order
JA> for the language in question
Off the top of my head, I don't think there are any. But this is why I
haven't fixed it yet, because I'd need to think about it past "off the
top of my head". ;-)
- C
Casey Duncan wrote:
>
>
> What if any disadvantages are there to not calling unindex_object first?
> If there aren't any goo
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Eric Roby wrote:
> The bottom line to all this venting (and I am not trying to shoot the
> messenger here) is that I need to understand where my efforts should
> be focused. If I need to abandon ZClasses in lieu of pure Python,
> then I need to know that now so I don't waste
>INDEXES:
> PrincipiaSearchSource Text Index 2,524
> autore Keyword Index 4,055
> bflow0 Field Index 4,055
> bflow1 Field Index 4,055
> bflow2 Field Index 4,055
Aha! a clue.
If that is the output of the 'Indexes' tab then I dont think you are
using the newest ZCatalog. A recent release (im
I'm sorry to say that Toby is right in pointing at the version from which I
cutted and pasted the following, but we are using also a newer version and
the problem is the same.
We're working out our way with the "dump the first bytes of the raw dump" of
the new, magnificent tranalyzer from Toby (i
Toby Dickenson wrote:
>
> >INDEXES:
> > PrincipiaSearchSource Text Index 2,524
> > autore Keyword Index 4,055
> > bflow0 Field Index 4,055
> > bflow1 Field Index 4,055
> > bflow2 Field Index 4,055
>
> Aha! a clue.
>
> If that is the output of the 'Indexes' tab then I dont think you are
> u
ZPatterns "0.4.3final" contains a serious bug which deletes all ZODB-stored
contents of a Rack when you use the manage_pack method. This bug only
affects you if you store Rack-mounted objects or attributes in the ZODB,
and does not affect you if your objects are entirely contained in an RDBMS
or
The catalog is a pristine 2.3.3b1 catalog.
We have recreated the catalog from scratch because we tried
manage_convertBTrees , but it don't work for us, it return with an error
(and the same happens with 2.3.3 final):
Error Type: TypeError
Error Value: second argument must be a class
Traceback
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Erik Enge wrote:
> If your application can't be written in five minutes and you expect to use
> it more than once, you shouldn't use ZClasses - IMO. The only argument
> for ZClasses (that I had at the time) was that it was very easy and fast
> to set up a couple of classes a
We think that Abel is absolutely right:
if in the same almost empty folder we add and catalog an object with one
word (and now we have optimized and reduced the number of indexes to 11) it
make a transaction of 73K, while if the object contains 300 words with the
same other indexes or properties,
Excellent, thanks so much Toby. Maybe some feedback will come in...
- C
Toby Dickenson wrote:
>
> Chris McDonough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I actually think this about sums it up. If you have time to look at it
> >Toby, it would be much appreciated. I don't think it's a very
> >compl
Barry A. Warsaw writes:
> I think I'm accurately channeling Guido when I say that Python will
> never be GPL'd. AFAIK, there is no GPL code even in the standard
> Python distribution. Both of those states of affair are by conscious
> decision: regardless of what you think of the GPL (and I pers
Joachim Werner writes:
> I know about the "duality" of Python classes. I just don't see what I could
> really do with a ZClass in the "instance space" (reading this twice, see
> below for some possible examples). A totally different aspect is whether
> Zope should have something like an in-bui
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Morten W. Petersen wrote:
> How about meta-programming (designing) via the Zope interface, with
> UML or somesuch; automatically generating Python code, then enable
> designers to use a ZFormulator-ish product to edit the interface while
> a programmer can work on the 'backen
One thing Id been musing about for a while was a ZClass > Python Product
script that took your ZClass and set up your basic python product for you.
It would only work for simple for things like permissions, properties, basic
methods... Then ZClasses could be an easier springboard into python produ
Chris:
I am working on getting a decent query language for ZCatalog/Catalog and
I have been able to make good progress, however I am running into a bit
of an issue that I thought you might know something about:
In order to implement a "!=" query operator, I am trying to do the
following:
>From
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Erik Enge wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Morten W. Petersen wrote:
>
> > How about meta-programming (designing) via the Zope interface, with
> > UML or somesuch; automatically generating Python code, then enable
> > designers to use a ZFormulator-ish product to edit the inter
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Andy McKay wrote:
> One thing Id been musing about for a while was a ZClass > Python Product
> script that took your ZClass and set up your basic python product for you.
> It would only work for simple for things like permissions, properties, basic
> methods... Then ZClasses
> > One thing Id been musing about for a while was a ZClass > Python Product
> > script that took your ZClass and set up your basic python product for
you.
> > It would only work for simple for things like permissions, properties,
basic
> > methods... Then ZClasses could be an easier springboard i
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Morten W. Petersen wrote:
> Well, it's quite logical: UML can be used to map out both software and
> business development (they are, after all, two sides of the same story),
> the designer can twiddle-n-polish the interface and the programmer can
> take care of 'exceptional t
On 20 Jun 2001 11:25:01 -0500, Tom Brown wrote:
> I would like to make an SQL query directly from python
> code. Do I have to make a
> ZSQL Method dynamically, or is there another way
> without making the class database
> dependent (i.e. Gadfly, PoPy, etc), utilizing an
> existing db_con? Supp
> Chris:
>
> I am working on getting a decent query language for ZCatalog/Catalog and
Very cool...
> I have been able to make good progress, however I am running into a bit
> of an issue that I thought you might know something about:
>
> In order to implement a "!=" query operator, I am trying t
Hi all,
Giovanni Maruzzelli wrote:
>
> We think that Abel is absolutely right:
>
> if in the same almost empty folder we add and catalog an object with one
> word (and now we have optimized and reduced the number of indexes to 11) it
> make a transaction of 73K, while if the object contains 300
Hello everyone,
I gotta join this discussion.
iuveno was also thinking about a tool that would replace ZClasses, since
their performance is far too bad. We had a not so good experience with the
ZClass-based Kontentor and now that the first part is rewritten in Python
we can see the speed-ups
>The UML interface may be a bit far fetched, but that's because nobody has
>done it yet. ;-)
Well, read my other mail. ;-)
Regards,
Stephan
--
Stephan Richter
CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student
Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management
__
Yikes. I wonder if this overhead comes from Vocabulary updates... thanks
very much for doing this test.
Clearly we need to pin it down. This is very disappointing. :-( Any
further info you dig up is appreciated.
You didn't have any metadata stuff set up, did you? I imagine even if you
did,
>Well, it's quite logical: UML can be used to map out both software and
>business development (they are, after all, two sides of the same story),
>the designer can twiddle-n-polish the interface and the programmer can
>take care of 'exceptional tasks' that can't easily be taken care of via
>the U
On 26 Jun 2001 00:29:05 +0200, Erik Enge wrote:
> On 25 Jun 2001, Michael R. Bernstein wrote:
>
> > Other than keeping the door open for this eventuality, is there any
> > other reason to choose a BSD style license over the GPL?
>
> Yes. A commercial one; an imperative one. If I make a Zope Py
On 26 Jun 2001 09:30:49 +1000, Richard Jones wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 05:22, Michael "R." Bernstein wrote:
> > On 25 Jun 2001 10:26:10 -0400, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> > > According to management, there's a zope-license list somewhere and we
> > > expect to move to a GPL compatible license. Paul
On 26 Jun 2001 10:29:39 +1000, Anthony Baxter wrote:
>
> >>> Michael "R." Bernstein wrote
> > Unless I've misunderstood something (which is certainly possible), DC
> > doesn't seem to have anything to lose by switching from a BSD style
> > license to the GPL (or a GPL style license with an additi
> "FWH" == Fred Wilson Horch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
FWH> But it would be nice to hear what Guido thinks, and what
FWH> Digital Creation thinks.
I won't speak on behalf of DC, but I'll bet Guido is pretty tired of
talking about it. :)
FWH> Knowing that the copyright holders
Chris McDonough wrote:
>
> Yikes. I wonder if this overhead comes from Vocabulary updates... thanks
> very much for doing this test.
No, this should definetely _not_ be related to vocabulary: I simply
copied an already indexed document and let ZCatalog.catalog_object munge
the copy. So all word
On 25 Jun 2001 21:54:16 +0200, Jerome Alet wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 12:22:32PM -0700, Michael R. Bernstein wrote:
> >
> > Other than keeping the door open for this eventuality, is there any
> > other reason to choose a BSD style license over the GPL?
> > ...
> > Unless I've misunderstood
On 26 Jun 2001 09:46:09 +0200, Erik Enge wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jerome Alet wrote:
>
> > For Zope it's not sure, but for Python, as well as for all what people
> > usually call "open source" languages, the license of choice should be
> > the GPL, or at least the LGPL, in order for the lang
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote:
> - A simple DTML Zope programmers costs are okay and maybe below programmer
> average.
> - A good Zope/Python programmer will cost above average.
> - A good Zope/Python System-Designer is very expensive.
>
> Because of that you try to minimize the
On 26 Jun 2001 10:30:06 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>
> > "JA" == Jerome Alet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> JA> For Zope it's not sure, but for Python, as well as for all
> JA> what people usually call "open source" languages, the license
> JA> of choice should be the GPL, or
> Chris McDonough wrote:
> >
> > Yikes. I wonder if this overhead comes from Vocabulary updates...
thanks
> > very much for doing this test.
>
> No, this should definetely _not_ be related to vocabulary: I simply
> copied an already indexed document and let ZCatalog.catalog_object munge
> the cop
Erik Enge wrote on 26 June:
> If your application can't be written in five minutes and you expect to use
> it more than once, you shouldn't use ZClasses - IMO. The only argument
> for ZClasses (that I had at the time) was that it was very easy and fast
> to set up a couple of classes and some in
> "MRB" == Michael R Bernstein writes:
MRB> On 26 Jun 2001 10:30:06 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>> > "JA" == Jerome Alet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
JA> For Zope it's not sure, but for Python, as well as for all
JA> what people usually call "open source" languag
On 26 Jun 2001, Michael R. Bernstein wrote:
> DC has been up-fron about how they make money. They do so by selling
> development services using Zope as a toolkit/platform.
Yes, and forcing those paying customers to use GPL is very hard (and not
very nice, either).
> Well, I guess the issue is
> If DTML programming / interface design is so simple, and cheap, why not
> automate it? (Strike two for low cost development).
>
> I've been trying to save some time (and my fingers!) by building a RAD
> framework, named the WarpFramework [1], which deals with the low level
> complexity of prope
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Eric Roby wrote:
> I will be checking out mk-zprod.
If you find it useful I can upgrade it to the next release which I've been
think of for some time now (I was actually going to do it some months ago,
but someone let all my time out... I'm tracking it down now.. Muhaha).
hi again ...
i would like to know, how it would be possible, to reverse
the function of the TransparentFolders, because i wan't to
use them as a patch-like function to existing zope trees.
Scenario:
You have a Zope Application, that uses more than 1000 objects
in the zope tree (e.g. /main) whic
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote:
> 1. We are building a wizard that asks you all the necessary questions
> to generate a basic class framwework.
Sounds exactly like my mk-zprod.
> If anyone is interested in helping developing that tool (which will be
> released under the GPL as all o
Chris McDonough wrote:
>
> > Chris:
> >
> > I am working on getting a decent query language for ZCatalog/Catalog and
>
> Very cool...
>
> > I have been able to make good progress, however I am running into a bit
> > of an issue that I thought you might know something about:
> >
> > In order to
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Casey Duncan wrote:
> Ok, I was able to get it to work by instantiating a IISet around
> _unindex.keys() and passing that to difference (Thanks!), however, I
> notice an interesting side effect. Let's say you have a TextIndex on
> title and you do the following query:
>
> tit
> > 1. We are building a wizard that asks you all the necessary questions
> > to generate a basic class framwework.
>
>Sounds exactly like my mk-zprod.
Cool. I am going to look at it as soon as I have a second to breath. Okay,
okay, you got me
I looked at the code pretty quick. I like it f
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Stephan Richter wrote:
> I looked at the code pretty quick. I like it from the first view. It
> is very clean and easy to see the functionality. I think, if you can
> define an ZPI for your communication, then it will be no problem to
> put a SmartWizard Class Generator Front
>>> Michael "R." Bernstein wrote
> I guess I don't understand how licensing Python under the GPL would
> prevent people from writing proprietary software in Python.
embedded or frozen python. I know I'd much rather see Python embedded
in applications than Tcl or (god help us all) Javascript/ECCC
Hi casey,
Changes were recently made to Field/Keyword Indexes so that they will
store empty items. An equivalent change could be made to TextIndexes...
we'd need to think about that a bit.
But for your purposes, you might want to start out attempting to write
your operator implementation using
>What is ZPI?
Typo: Read API
> > Well, the SmartWizard would be like the frontend for it. If you want
> > to see an early non-SmartWizard-framework version, look at the
> > ProiektorInstaller. Just imagine you can build installers like that
> > in Zope. I hope to be done with the first version
> >What is ZPI?
>
> Typo: Read API
Its the Zope version of an API :)
Cheers.
--
Andy McKay.
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(Related lists -
htt
At 06:40 PM 6/26/01 -0700, Andy McKay wrote:
> > >What is ZPI?
> >
> > Typo: Read API
>
>Its the Zope version of an API :)
If you want to see it. Yeah, we just created another three-letter acronym
for this world!!! So everyone, it is not anymore API, but ZPI...geez, I am
starting to get silly,
> > I will upload the documents tomorrow though, since it is late here and
> > I have to do some work still.
>
>Ok. I'll begin thinking about all the stuff I dreamt of making mk-zprod
>into.
Okay, okay...I stayed up and typed it down pretty quick (2 hours). I
attached it to this mail. It is pl
I apologize in advance to those on the list for whom this lowers the
signal to noise ratio. I hope by now you've killed the subject line and
you won't even see this if you're not interested.
I sill haven't heard where the proper forum is for discussing Zope
licensing issues; here's my last post
Hi.
How can I do a url quote from a python script?
Can I somehow access the method in urllib or DT_Var or how can it be done?
--
/Magnus Heino
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abel deuring wrote:
> A text index (class SearchIndex.UnTextIndex) is definetely is a cause of
> bloating, if you use CatalogAware objects. An UnTextIndex maintains for
Right.. if you don't use CatalogAware, however, and don't unindex before
reindexing an object, you should see a huge bloat savin
Chris McDonough wrote:
>
> abel deuring wrote:
> > A text index (class SearchIndex.UnTextIndex) is definetely is a cause of
> > bloating, if you use CatalogAware objects. An UnTextIndex maintains for
>
> Right.. if you don't use CatalogAware, however, and don't unindex before
> reindexing an obj
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:31:02 -0400, Chris McDonough
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Right.. if you don't use CatalogAware, however, and don't unindex before
>reindexing an object, you should see a huge bloat savings, because the
>only things which are supposed to be updated then are indexes and
>meta
I actually think this about sums it up. If you have time to look at it
Toby, it would be much appreciated. I don't think it's a very
complicated set of fixes, its just not on the radar at the moment, and
might require some thought about backwards-compatibility.
- C
Toby Dickenson wrote:
>
>
Giovanni, which Zope version are you running?
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Chris McDonough wrote:
> How many indexes do you have, what are the index types, and what do
> they index? Likewise, what about metadata? In your last message, you
> said there's about 20. That's a heck of a lot of indexes. D
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 06:45:54 -0400, Chris McDonough
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I can see a potential reason for the problem you explain as "and I
>remind you that as the folder get populated, the size that is added to
>each transaction grows, a folder with one hundred objects adds some
>100K"...
Chris McDonough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I actually think this about sums it up. If you have time to look at it
>Toby, it would be much appreciated. I don't think it's a very
>complicated set of fixes, its just not on the radar at the moment, and
>might require some thought about backwards-c
Jerome Alet wrote:
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Erik Enge wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Jerome Alet wrote:
> >
> > > Java comes to mind, guess who is the "powerful entity" ;-)
> >
> > I really can't see that Java has been bastardized by it, though.
>
> I was told that some java programs only ru
Subject: [Zope] CatalogAware
> CatalogAware has been blamed for alot of problems. Its three
> weaknesses I am aware of are:
>
> b. It uses URLs not paths, and so doesnt play right with
>virtual hosting
>
**
Jerome Alet wrote:
>
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Anthony Baxter wrote:
>
> >
> > >>> Jerome Alet wrote
> > > I personnally would love to see both Python and Zope be GPLed.
> >
> > Why? No really. Exactly what do you gain from this? Assuming Zope's
> > license becomes GPL compatible, any packages you
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