t; removeAllProxies(located_none) is None
True
Or you can use `sameProxiedObjects`, which does the identity check on
the internal objects of one or two proxies:
>>> sameProxiedObjects(located_none, None)
True
You can see this when wrapping another instance of None with a locatio
tors. By grand design or divine accident, the fact that the
first argument for `property` is the getter function makes it a useful
decorator. But it wasn't written with decorators in mind. It was
written for ``x = property(getX, setX, delX)``, or some combination
thereof.
--
Jeff Shell
On 2/21/07, Shaar Gabriel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
a little thought about zc.resourcelibrary. shouldn't the added
resources (at least javascript) be closer to than to .
this way the specific javascript resources can make use of the more
general ones included in the skin with the template. does
ystem. Viva AJAX with JSON! Viva View-Source! Viva good old fashioned
GET and POST HTTP requests that don't have additional traversal steps
buried in a body that one could never type by hand!)
- 100 for adding this kind of support to the core. It's way too much
of a mess, and the Python
This is a very delayed response, I'm sorry. I seldom get/make the time
to check GMail these days. Eternally busy, for better or worse :).
On 1/2/07, Stephan Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Wednesday 20 December 2006 16:03, Jeff Shell wrote:
> > > > zope.fssync
>
w for {{ expr }} type things in its templates? Or
was that Kid? Anyways, I hate having to type a whole bunch of TAL to
generate a fake tag and all of that to do a simple insertion in cases
where I could really do without that overhead::
Featured?
'view/featuredFlag' renders lots o
re used and can
be built. Perhaps give templated starting points like paster does::
$ paster create --template=zope3product easytodo
The Zope 3 experience does nothing to start the casual newcomer
towards building a simple starter application. Both Pylons and
TurboGears have a 'q
On 12/14/06, Jeff Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 12/14/06, Florian Lindner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello, I have a object, derived from Persistent when contain one
> attribute which is not serializable and that's not a problem for me,
> but Zope complains ab
you can. Some
# kind of small memento.
# This is what gets pickled and stored in the ZODB.
return state
def __setstate__(self, state):
# here is where you can re-instantiate 'unserializable'
state['unserializable'] =
):
value = field.query(source, _marker)
if (value is _marker) and applydefaults:
value = field.default
yield (name, value)
address = dict(pairs(contact.address, IStreetAddress))
# or
pprint.pprint(list(pairs(contact.address, IStreetAddress)
On 11/15/06, Christian Theune <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
just a quick reminder: Today is a bugday to help get Zope 3.3 virtually
free of bugs (by handling bugs from the collector.)
Any status report on this? The collector state(s) seem unchanged.
--
Jeff
al straw that got me smoking again after two
months clean.
On 11/3/06, Christian Theune <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jeff Shell wrote:
> On 11/3/06, Christian Theune <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> what about calling the evolve() scripts from your generation?
I require... But it looks like I'll have to
manually monkey with the order...
:(
I blame myself. I should have gotten more involved during the beta
testing period for Zope 3.3, just to test it against our old
databases...
It's been a rough week.
--
Jeff Shell
_
ow loads up without deprecation warnings on a fresh ZODB, but
I'm struggling to load up an old ZODB copy with real data, and am now
suddenly behind schedule.
We have at least three more customer code bases beyond this one that
we want to update as well. I'm trying to think of a better
I have to follow this up. While I thought I was doing a good job
reporting and testing the problem, I didn't do a hard enough
control-group study. So, I started to investigate further:
Even though I saw absolutely nothing about our ReadDirectory subclass
that would cause the strange behavior, I d
radigm isn't used?
After encountering this, I am rather uneasy about the number of places
in which I see this "self as default marker check" paradigm. My
biggest unease comes from not knowing proxies and when things are
proxied and when they're not and when I have to be careful
wledge Base / Whatever supports the
structured text syntax I've been writing in.
Oh well.
I absolutely agree that we need to replace the existing wikis. One other thing
we'll need to consider is anti-spam capabilities.
I'll agree with this agreement.
--
Jeff Shell
_
f issues four layers down from
customer-specific code.
So: I really like Launchpad's goals and intentions. But its a
usability nightmare to me as a casual visitor. And I've found that for
me, personally, it's hard to stay involved with or on top of a project
in that situation,
x27;s a very nice system to use, even casually.
The Timeline is like a Wiki's "Recent Changes" on crack. Except the
crack is filled with helpful vitamins: recent wiki changes, recent
checkins, recent issue tracker activity (bugs submitted, opened,
closed). It just feels so much more alive.
--
Jeff Shell
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age templates, nothing - can't there be a lighter weight security
implementation that wouldn't take half a year of "lots of hard work"?
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Or does Zope 3.3 + Python 2.5 work,
but it hasn't been tested enough to say "it's usable, but not
required"?
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r when really it was bound to IFoo,"
but I don't understand the solution that you're trying to get to and
why. Specifically, I don't get how it "hurts formlib."
I think a good copy-and-modify tool for zope.interface.Attribute (or
at
someone made an implementation of this
at some point.
As far as I can tell, the 'Path' schema field is not much more than a
string. For a 'configuration' language, that's rough.
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long and painful process sometimes, but I could at
least follow obscure (and accidental) bugs and problems to the source.
Go ahead and make ZCML the most beautiful new language you want it to
be. But it's got *severe* problems right now. And the "just about
anything doable in ZCML can be
|
> | Was that an endorsement or criticism? :)
>
> A endorsement I guess, since Mr. Shell seems to think that's the Right
> Way (tm).
I'm not sure if it's the Right Way or not. But it's the way that's
available now and makes enough sense for simple situations.
-
On 3/17/06, Tres Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Shell wrote:
> > By the way, isn't it pretty easy to provide straight up values anyways
> > for those quick drop-down situations?
>
>
>
> You're missing the point -- the vocabulary is *not* softw
ily on custom vocabularies for a customer
application I'm about to resume work on this week. I don't think I'm
going to have time to do any such revision. But I would like to know
(or help others know) how to apply such a revision in the future.
--
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On 3/16/06, Tres Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>
>
>
> > * sources and terms are nice, but we should at least provide some basic
> > sources and register some basic terms for them; that bit is completely
> > missing i
ucks an even bigger electrical outlet.
(Honestly - I'm too stupid to understand Excel... But maybe I'm saying
that after spending a week writing an CSV inventory importer. Ugh).
> If ZCML is to be a simple registration language, I'd also like there to
> be a 1 to 1 mapping of ZCML sta
On 3/16/06, Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Shell wrote:
> > I don't think there's anything wrong with "custom Python" code to set
> > this up. It's programmatic, isn't it? A lot of it may be repetitive,
> > and if that&#
ch point you've got an
event handler all over again. I'm looking at my code to set up the
authentication utility for some of our sites. Very specific rules
about what plugins are needed (users, groups, http credentials) and
things in those plugins (default groups). There's no way I'd
opment and *not* just configuration, I think ZCML should
be a thin layer and the Python layer should be robust. I think it
would promote better code, components, applications, sites, etc, if
the Python developer remained the chief focus of the current round of
development. The community of developers
e a reference to something in Rails and google
``rails validates_presence_of`` and usually get to the api reference
first. (Not that I'm leaving Zope for Rails, but I have been toying
with it a bit, I admit).
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def __call__(self):
if not self.context.available():
return u''
...
That last bullet is important. This is the "yeah, but how do I grow up
beyond ___?" answer. With custom ZCML directives,
I can write an enterprise workflow and document
management system in it. Let Python be the language. Let ZCML exist to
do the final step of loading/registering registerable objects in a
predictable manner, and to provide the few things that we don't want
to pollute our (or others) Python code with, like security
declarations.
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itialize(context)`` functions in
your Zope 2 Product's __init__.py files and change things? That's what
I view ZCML as being - a better version of that. (Better in only that
configuration and initialization can be executed separately from
Python imports)
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through ZCML
statements, and what they've produced. From dynamically made classes
to the weirdness of the metaconfigure.py code (handlers,
discriminators, etc) - all of those things get in the way of a
productive pdb or "why is this thing blowing up?" session real fast.
In my experience
the existing once should suffice.
* Don't let ZCML do automation, Python is better at it. People will look for
some of the behaviour in the Python code only to find out that it's not there
but hidden behind dubious ZCML directives. This can be avoided. Simply try to
look
eful and I
ran into having to write a similar bulk of code the other day -
although my adapter and annotator had a larger separation (so
'zope:annotation' wouldn't have helped me anyways). I would argue that
most situations requiring some sort of automation can be done by Plain
Old Pyth
cation that's flashier and more dedicated than the ZMI, is
less overwhelming than Plone, is easy to generate from a base Schema,
and is easy to start branding to one own's desires and morphing into
one's own application. Add viewlets/content providers on to that and
you could really reall
understandable... Mostly. Much more so than
trying to follow a ZCML directive.
This is all still for a developer focused crowd, which is still my
main interest. I'll provide the cool things for my customers. The more
cool and usable things go into the core that help me more than they
coddle me, th
On 3/5/06, Max M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Geoff Davis wrote:
> > Jeff Shell has posted some thought-provoking pieces on his blog that are
> > relevant to Jim's recent attempt to better articulate a vision for Zope:
> >
> > http://griddlenoise.blogspot.c
oint we're still experimenting with how we'll use
> eggs, so suggestions, feedback and comments are welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nathan R. Yergler
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nd flexible than most basic type
systems.
I think that zope.schema, zope.component, and zope.interface could be
highly effective when combined with a tool like 'sqlalchemy'.
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tions, app servers, and even competition.
One of my thoughts for some weekend hacking was to look at zope.bobo,
or play with my own concept just to see if I really understand how the
publisher/publication interact. As I started thinking about that, I
started wondering (a) how to get the pieces I need
e 3
as a someday successor to Zope 2, maybe" message goes away. 'Zope 3'
becomes less of a product name on its own and comes to stand for the
work done to re-imagine Zope as a loosely coupled collection of
components, and the possibilities that it opens up. The message then
becomes "Zo
On 3/1/06, Gary Poster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Mar 1, 2006, at 11:02 PM, Jeff Shell wrote:
> [...]
> > Django is killing us on automatic data (not system) administration
> > pages.
> [...]
>
> I didn't follow this, probably because I don&#x
On 3/1/06, Shane Hathaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Shell wrote:
> > - Zope 3 CA: The Zope Component Architecture. Core services. Would
> > include zope.publisher and most other current top level zope.* things.
> > Usable as a library, as a publisher for oth
ides a robust and mature web development
environment that is in place already behind many web sites and applications
worldwide. [download zope 2.9 now | more info | roadmap ]
Thoughts?
I think this keeps Zope 3 as we know it alive, keeps the Zope brand
intact, and offers a future for Zope 2 and
le, that
trying to use a particular widget isn't likely to make my system need
to register 80 supporting components and sub systems. Hopefully some
simple guidelines can stay in place and stuck to in regards to "how to
make sharable components sharable".
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my own selfish desires anyways. I still believe that if we
can build and deliver a solidly defined core, then we (or others) can
do anything on top of it - a full on replacement for ZClasses,
continuations based development with through the web shadowing
t is similar. It
has nothing to do with page templates, except as a minor
implementation detail. I think __call__ is about the best generic API
we can use right now. On top of that, the 'update/render' API used in
zope.formlib, zope.contentprovider, and zope.view
sically see the "Zope 3 ZMI" long enough to add one of my
sites/applications. At that point, my skins take over, and that's all
I see. The rotterdam skin is there as last resort to get out of
trouble or to tweak local utility configurations.
I guess I've just made some supporting libraries and frameworks to
help me. I had this with Zope 2 too, but it's been easier to do with
Zope 3. I encourage everyone to do this.
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me* kind of support.
If done properly, having this::
class ArticleDisplay(PageView):
template = ViewPageTemplateFile('article.pt')
[ZCML]
seems pleasant enough. Then when you need to format the 'description'
field through something like newlin
On 2/16/06, Shane Hathaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Shell wrote:
> > I agree that better integration with external data should be a
> > priority for Zope. But what does that mean? In theory, if something's
> > a Python object it should work with Zope 3 wit
On 2/15/06, Chris Withers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Stephan Richter wrote:
> > I do not think namespace declarations are dead chickens. For me declaring a
> > namespace in ZCML is the same as importing a package or module in Python.
> > You
> > would not want all functions and classes in Python
On 2/10/06, Shane Hathaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wade Leftwich wrote:
> > +1 from the standpoint of promoting corporate adoption, especially when
> > combined with first-class citizenship for RDBMS. (In the corporation I
> > work for, anyway.)
>
> Yes, RDBMS would become a first-class citize
On 2/15/06, Fred Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2/15/06, Paul Winkler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Only that I have the same question Martijn does:
> > Can I then override one of those resources and keep the other 34?
>
> Perhaps the resourceDirectory directive should just be sugar for a s
On 2/10/06, Shane Hathaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chris Withers wrote:
> > I'd flip that, because I think you and Steve A would agree on one thing:
> > The use of an object database _should_ be a choice, not a requirement,
> > but it should also be the default ;-)
>
> Actually, I disagree--I
rface Types. I don't have our Zope 3 book in front of me right
now, so I'm not sure if it has anything helpful to say. But I'll just
say that Interface Types have been an elusive concept for me, so far.
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On 2/13/06, Stephan Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 13 February 2006 07:57, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
> > Yet again looking for comments, this time at:
> > http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/OneNamespaceForZCML.
>
> -1
>
> Here some comments:
>
> - You do not argue how the decision-mak
On 2/7/06, Stephan Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tuesday 07 February 2006 05:09, Jeff Shell wrote:
> > Alright, I've stayed up way too late on this.
>
> Jeff,
>
> you always make great points! I would like to nominate you as the "Zope 3
> Propagan
ality, it doesn't help.
> This is the proposal that considers the most serious consideration in my
> opinion. The original discussion showed that a lot of people found Zope's
> lack of branding a problem. Now it's time to find a solution to that
> problem.
Something that
On 1/24/06, Chris Withers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gary Poster wrote:
> >
> > FWIW, me too. I'm no XML guru (as Fred will attest ;-) ) but reading
> > the namespaces on an XML file seems like basic XML procedure.
>
> Well, the reading of them is the lesser of my two complaints...
>
> I find it
ot;write these n lines of ZCML to auto-generate
an edit form for a schema/interface", it should be "write these 5
lines of Python to generate that form, and 1-2 lines of ZCML to
register it, name it, and protect it." And then, as the user
found from the interface down in the
factories/classes section, maybe that's good enough?
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On 1/13/06, Gary Poster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Comparing the id attribute works. Is it reasonable to assume that
> > zapi.principals().getPrincipal(request.principal.id) should return the
> > same principal as request.principal? And thus if
> > somerecord['creator_id'] == request.principal.
b3_1 == b3_2
False
Comparing the id attribute works. Is it reasonable to assume that
zapi.principals().getPrincipal(request.principal.id) should return the
same principal as request.principal? And thus if
somerecord['creator_id'] == request.principal.id, that's considered a
good match?
I've developed a sick fascination with undo and have been working
[hard] over the past few days trying to write some code for our
internal frameworks to make Undo easy. Inspired by GMail's "Message
Discarded (Undo Discard)" functionality, I've set about making
something similar that does a modified
On 1/3/06, Wade Leftwich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Andreas Jung wrote:
> > To bring it to the point: _scripters_ should be able to develop in Zope
> > 3 as easy as in Zope 2 :-)
>
> Or at least almost as easily as in RoR or Django. TTW is not a
> requirement; Chris McDonough's "TTB" posting was
Actually, I just found another place where Python expressions are
handy. I have a simple but kindof specialized form - one that is too
simple and too specific to really go through the Zope schema system
without a lot of gnashing of teeth. It may be easier to do with
zope.formlib, but it's still not
On 12/30/05, Alexander Limi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 15:49:46 +0100, Philipp von Weitershausen
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I think it would be quite possible to do explicit key or attribute
> > lookup with TALES, e.g.:
> >
> > foo/attr:bar (for foo.bar)
> > foo/k
-1.
I use them very rarely, and expect to use them less with Viewlets now
in the picture. But there are still little situations where Python
expressions are handy, especially on big-macro templates where there's
not a backing view. I'm not advocating programming in page templates,
but there are so
On 12/23/05, Jim Fulton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've been working on trying to clean up the IResult/response.write mess.
> I want to retract IResult from the public API.
>
> Here's what I propose to do:
>
> - Move IResult from zope.publisher.interfaces.http to
>zope.publisher.http, thus
king), efficient image serving from Zope is
not that big of a concern to us...
But back to the issue at hand - knowing how to better serve those out
to the response would be a big help.
On 12/19/05, Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Shell wrote:
> > I was using it in
I was using it in some custom views for HurryFile based images. I've
removed it since I started testing our code against Zope 3.2. Right
now I just return the hurryfile binary data with a return statement
(one big chunk), but am looking forward to knowing how to return long
output.
On 12/19/05, Ji
On 12/15/05, Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim Fulton wrote:
> > Martijn Faassen wrote:
> [snip]
> > > Or am I wrong in even imagining this would be desirable?
> >
> > I think so. If there are custom views for more specific interfaces,
> > it is likely those custom views provide fe
On 12/13/05, Jim Fulton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Shell wrote:
> ...
> > Going through a lot of debugging, it looks as through it has to do
> > with how things are ranked in
> > zope.interface.adapter.AdapterLookup.lookup() for multi-adapters.
>
> Yu
On 12/13/05, Jim Fulton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Shell wrote:
> > On 12/13/05, Jim Fulton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>Jeff Shell wrote:
> >>
> >>>Is it related to this? "Bug in Multi Adapter Lookup"?
> >&
On 12/13/05, Jim Fulton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Shell wrote:
> > Is it related to this? "Bug in Multi Adapter Lookup"?
> > http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/396
> > ('fixed' in Zope 3.2b1)
> >
> > That's my suspicion
have to re-declare
the view for each container type. I guess I should also learn more
about how everything collaborates to establish an objects interfaces
and in what order so I can ensure that the base Zope interfaces are
lower on the providedBy list?
On 12/12/05, Jeff Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]&
There's nothing (as far as I'm aware) stopping you from using XUL for
your own Zope 3 apps - even replacing some or all of the basic ZMI
with it and then offering it as a management skin for Zope.
But for what it's worth - we've been working on a CMS in Zope 3 with a
custom skin for managing conte
Today I finally got around to installing Zope 3.2b1 and started
testing one of our sites against it. I'm running into a few problems,
some of which are my fault, some that I don't quite understand, and
one that is really bad.
We have been basically rolling a custom CMS in Zope 3, and the content
m
Bottlerocket has also chosen MochiKit. It's not full of flashy
effects, but its Ajax support is nice, it's well tested, and it brings
a lot of Python style functionality to JavaScript which makes
JavaScript suck a whole lot less (for real - the DOM and Iterator
libraries are absolutely great).
In
No 'formlib' for the core distribution, or was that just omitted from
the feature list?
I plan to start testing this soon. We had some problems with Python
2.4.1 + Zope 3.1 on one of our deployment boxes (the app/ZODB was
developed against Python 2.3.x). I'm hoping it was just the [EMAIL PROTECTED
I have an application where I'm trying to use 'zope.app.generations'
for the first time. And after much pulling of hair and looking at the
core code, I found what may be a missed scenario.
Basically, we deployed this application for a customer and now they
want some changes. It changes the schema
I love hurry.query. Whether it's in the core or not doesn't phase me,
but it is really really helpful. We got bit by not realizing that
FieldIndex queries passed directly to the catalog/index had a low and
high range. It was a small bite. But it took us a while to figure out
why searching for 'summ
Why is WYSIWYG so important? Who's going to be editing all of that? I
don't want another zopewiki.org. I think that zopewiki.org is a good
site and that there should be an area of the site that's like that
which may be open to the world - but I'd like serious / fun / USABLE
documentation to be sepa
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES OH GOD YES!
I mean. Yes! Backup/restore, and deploy. We're deploying a customers
site in chunks - one section, then another, then a third. It's content
that's being migrated off of Zope 2. The other developer here was
complaining about ha
On 10/11/05, Stephan Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 October 2005 13:24, Jeff Shell wrote:
> > Personally, I really like the Z3ECM project site - z3lab.org. It has a
> > combination of blogs, papers, demos (animations) and documentation.
> > That'
On 10/11/05, Stephan Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 October 2005 13:24, Jeff Shell wrote:
> > I'd really like to give Zope 3 a try, and I keep trying to. The docs
> > are just nauseating. They might look good or fine to someone who's
> > us
ishing
them on the web. Or a shorter path between writing some plain old
Python code and seeing a result.
I need to read more of the other thread about this. I just know that
there's some debate of whether Zope 3 should be a part of the Zope.org
site. I'm for having it be
Zope 3.0 doesn't seem to work with GCC 4, as I (and others) have had
the same problem. On my system (Mac OS X 10.4), GCC 3.3 is also
available, and I was able to use 'gcc_select' to switch to 3.3 to
build Zope 3.0. If you have, or can get, both gcc's on your system,
this appears to be the best rout
Is what's there right now going to be what ships with Zope 3.1 final?
On 7/18/05, Gary Poster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Jul 18, 2005, at 11:14 AM, Jeff Shell wrote:
>
> > I'm working on a simple application which is the first time I get to
> > use the
cation. I can throw together my own, I'm sure,
that's a bit more brute force for my own purposes if necessary. I
don't claim to have a solid understanding of how indexes and the
catalog work (although it's been much easier to figure out
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