I was just responding to the example you use. I don't need INSPECT code to protect my mail server and yes, I use both products and yes again, both are good.
-------------------------- Daniel Bourque BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Ivan Coric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Mon Jun 23 20:33:07 2003 Subject: Re: RE : suggestions on a good firewall Daniel, And? if you bothered to look at the thread, you would see it pertains to whether the PIX actual inspects application data, not whether CheckPoint does! The PIX also does Java applet filtering, ActiveX blocking and can work with a url-filtering server. For this to wok in must be able to look into the packets, eh Chris? I am not saying that the PIX is better than CheckPoint, nor that CheckPoint is better than the PIX, rather explaining that the PIX does actually do stateful inspection. I use CheckPoint, PIX, Netscreen and iptables here, and IMHO they are all great products. cheers Ivan >>> Bourque Daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 06/24/03 02:45am >>> Correct me if I am wrong but with Checkpoint, the smtp security server allow you to terminate the smtp session at the fw that will in turn send it to your smtp mail server. If you telnet to port 25, it's the fw talking back. -----Message d'origine----- De : Ivan Coric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : 22 juin, 2003 19:24 À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Objet : RE: suggestions on a good firewall Lets take the SMTP protocol for example, fixup SMTP enables the mail guard feature which only lets mail servers receive the RFC 821 commands of HELO, MAIL, RCPT, DATA, RSET, NOOP and QUIT. All other commends are rejected. If you want to do a similar thing in CheckPoint you will need to provide the INSPECT code to do it. I can netcat through my CheckPoint FW to my mail servers, web servers etc. Even do a HEAD request to get a banner of the web server and the CP FW does it happily. cheers Ivan >>> Willi Web <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 06/20/03 10:25pm >>> The FIXUP protocol is there to correct irregular behavior in normal protocols. For example, the FTP Fixup allows traffic in on port 20 when the traffic originated on 21. The SMTP fixup disallows certain SMTP commands that could be used for nefarious purposes. The PIX cannot shun traffic based on what the FIXUP protocols detect. There is no dynamic ACL creation possible. The PIX is not a true application level firewall. I can send NETCAT traffic over HTTP and the PIX will never know. Whereas the Checkpoints and Raptors can detect anomalies in traffic, and act on them. --Chris -----Original Message----- From: Ivan Coric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 7:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Christopher Harrington; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall HI Chris, I beg to differ, Cisco has a command called "fixup", which is used to set application inspection. http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/secursw/ps2120/products_configura tion_guide_chapter09186a00800eb727.html#wp1063233 cheers Ivan Coric IT Technical Security Officer Information Technology WorkCover Queensland Ph: (07) 30066414 Fax: (07) 30066424 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> "Christopher Harrington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 05/25/03 12:51pm >>> Ok...I agree that they 2 are different firewalls. Cisco does not do application level inspection, Checkpoint does for example. NG fp3 came out fall of 2002 (about ??), about the same time as PIX 6.2. We are tied :), the PIX has had 2 vulns since version 6.2 came out. BTW I never said I disliked Checkpoint, to the contrary actually. I just take exceptions to incorrect statements. --Chris -----Original Message----- From: David Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 8:53 PM To: Christopher Harrington; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall I am talking about the new version of checkpoint, not 4.1 or 4.0. I am talking about NGFP3. Checkpoint doesn't even support the earlier versions anymore. And Cisco's Idea of stateful packet inspection is actually reverse engineered Checkpoint. Checkpoint developed it and even have a patent on stateful packet inspection technology. They even tried to bring Cisco to court for saying they were stateful packet inspection firewalls but Cisco won due to the way they worded it. Also OPSEC standards (Open Platform for Security) Is brought to you by Checkpoint Systems. I love Checkpoint firewalls as you can see. :-) They also have a secure platform which can load on a system which runs on a stripped down linux and you can even go with nokia appliance which comes with Checkpoint NG. I personally think Cisco should stay with routers and switches (which they are great at). Then look at the stats after you look up checkpoint NG fp3 # of vulns on PIX ---> 16 # of vulns on Checkpoint ---> 2 Thanks for listening :-) -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Harrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 1:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall Ahhh...maybe you should actually look at bugtraq before you open yourself up like that. # of vulns on PIX ---> 16 # of vulns on Checkpoint ---> 30 "A new vulnerability is found every other week"...unfounded comments like that do not help. --Chris -----Original Message----- From: David Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 12:34 PM To: Potter, Tim; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall Actually the checkpoint implied rules are not actually hidden. You just enable and disable through global properties, and I prefer checkpoint over pix cause just look at the bugtraq record on pix. A new vulnerability is found every other week -----Original Message----- From: Potter, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 12:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall Actually the PIX does have a "pretty" graphical interface. I'm not fond of it for many tasks, but the "PDM" can be good for someone newer to managing a PIX. Also, for a cheaper hardware-based application firewall I would go with the Watchguard. My application firewall of choice would be Sidewinder or Checkpoint, but you can't beat the cost of the Watchguard. Older versions of the firmware required a reboot for every change, but they have gotten much better with the newest firmware. -Tim -----Original Message----- From: Mark Ng [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 11:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: suggestions on a good firewall > > Agreed. > > A Windows box, properly locked down, can be a reliable firewall. There's an element of truth to that - but I'm not sure I'd want to be the person locking it down or keeping up to date with patches ;). I also wouldn't recommend Windows unless in an HA pair. There's also a very strong argument for openbsd and PF too (stability, proven track record of security) - however, it's not as manageable as some other solutions. > Locking it down can be a chore, a much easier chore with Win2003 > server, but still takes some expertise and finesse. I prefer I've not yet had any experience with 2k3, so I can't possibly comment. > hardware firewalls with a firmware basis, as they're harder to > exploit, but many brands have reliability issues. I'm currently > running Checkpoint and Gauntlet on Solaris, but this is a production > environment I've inherited. If you're in the hardware firewall market, I quite like Netscreen and PIX. Netscreen had some issues with some software upgrades being a bit buggy some time recently though iirc, but on the whole, they're fairly solid firewalls that are easy to administer. PIX's of course don't have the pretty graphical interface, but are solid firewalls. I don't like Checkpoint, any firewall that comes by default with "Hidden Implied Rules" doesn't wash with me (is this still the case with newer versions of Checkpoint ?) > > For a good, relatively inexpensive firewall, I'd recommend the > Linux-Mandrake firewall solution, running on commodity Intel hardware. > Simple to set up, fairly easy to run, easy to maintain. Smoothwall definitely has its merits in this arena - and by extension I'd imagine IPcop does too. > 2. What can my sysadmin handle ? A Junior MCSE handed a To be honest, I don't really think an MCSE with small amounts of job experience should ever be handed main security responsibility. There's merit to outsourcing security functions in this event if you're too small to justify full time security staff or experienced systems administrators with security experience. Any firewall configured badly is a bad firewall, be it IPcop, Smoothwall, OpenBSD/PF , Checkpoint or whatever. Regards, Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Thinking About Security Training? You Can't Afford Not To! Vigilar's industry leading curriculum includes: Security +, Check Point, Hacking & Assessment, Cisco Security, Wireless Security & more! Register Now! --UP TO 30% off classes in select cities-- http://www.securityfocus.com/Vigilar-security-basics ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Thinking About Security Training? You Can't Afford Not To! 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