Opps, forgot to reply to all -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Meidinger Christopher Gesendet: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:41 PM An: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Betreff: AW: Firewall configuration statistics
The number of companies that have a dedicated connection to the internet and no firewall is infinitesimal. I suspect that 100% (or 99.99999%) of all companies hacked had a firewal, and 90% of then were hacked across the firewall, against 10% that were hacked over dialup/trojans/etc. And, i feel bad prolonging this discussino, but you didn't listen to us either. We were saying there might be more effective marketing strategies than statistics which cannot be proven one way or another. Nobody (except maybe that first offensive poster early on) is against you. Rather, we were hoping to help you improve your marketing tactics by considering the (relatively) unique attributes of the security market. badenIT GmbH System Support Chris Meidinger Tullastrasse 70 79108 Freiburg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:33 PM An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: Firewall configuration statistics This still goes to show you did not get the point of the original question. The numbers were for marketing. Most security marketing is targeted towards upper management not low level IT guys. To get a initial meeting it is important to get their attention somehow. Security sells better top down (at least for us). We did manage to gather statistics all you guys keep saying does not exist. Have a look at idc reports and Gartner group. A good example is one that states that "90% of all companies hacked last year had a firewall." -SKP -----Original Message----- From: Meidinger Christopher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 4:46 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Brian Eckman'; 'Des Ward' Subject: AW: Firewall configuration statistics As a security professional and someone that has to do with sales, i wanted to add a quick thought, but don't want to engage in thread necromancy. So anyway, i wanted to agree with you Brian -- i do not believe that the number could possibly be less than 90-95% as far as patched vulnerabilities. Des, i agree with you also. There are no numbers across the board. The needs of a regularly audited DoD contractor are vastly different than the security needs of a small business looking to install their first mail server and realizing that they will need a firewall in front of it. There are no numbers that you can apply to everything, good salesmanship and understanding of the industry are paramount. Any IT guy worth his salt will likely skip over the numbers and statistics anyway, and his manager will usually ask him what he thinks. Going over the IT boss' head to get a contract can only result in 1) he making sure you get no more contracts or 2) him getting fired, with 1 being the more likely. As this justin person blew his top, i agreed with him, but did not defend him because i thought his tone went way overboard. SKP - i think you are a bit wrong that security contracts are won with statistics. I would say they are won by: 1) References from existing customers [this is the big one folks, there is nothing more important than two executives talking over a power lunch about the security consultants that discovered that their entire customer database was world readable] 2) Increased awareness on the part of the client [be it advertising, a compromise of oneself of a colleague, whatever, the customer is on the market for security help] and 3) Extending existing contracts from LAN/WAN whatever to include security. Statistics count toward the increased awareness factor, but i never heard that anyone walked in and talked about vulnerability statistics and walked out with a contract. Oh well, this is a bit incoherant, but it's early in the morning here in germany and i really should be working, so i hope youll understand. badenIT GmbH System Support Chris Meidinger Tullastrasse 70 79108 Freiburg -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Monday, June 23, 2003 8:00 PM An: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: Firewall configuration statistics I think its time to put this thread to rest. Since I started it I think I will be the appropriate person to do so. In summary I don't think my original point got across to most people. In part it must have something to do with the way I wrote the question and in part lack of sales or business experience of people reading this thread. My question was clearly a marketing question regarding industry statistics. IT is quiet stupid for people to say that statistics don't matter. Almost all security projects are sold because someone read a statistic or does not want to become one. As to the leaving number to sales and security to security professionals. This way of thinking is guaranteed to shutdown the company that the consultants work for. Everybody is in sales regardless of their title or position. If you are not selling you are useless to your organization regardless of how much skills you may possess. This is my $.05 $.25 and $1.00 worth -SKP -----Original Message----- From: Des Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 1:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Firewall configuration statistics Right, let's try and put this one to bed. Unless you are using stats that are relevant to the industry, size and external-facing internet presence of the intended audience; the stats used are of no real intrinsic value. Industry numbers have no real intrinsic value because of this. That is both fact and experience talking. The IT industry is full of people who will be conned and those who will con. I am not saying that anyone in this list is doing this, again this is merely fact and experience. All others in the group have been guilty of is putting this point across in a different way. In summary, let the security professionals deal with security and the salesmen deal with numbers. That way everyone is happy. Just my £0.05 worth. Here's to staring another thread having finally put this one to bed :o) Des -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 June 2003 22:04 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Firewall configuration statistics Justin's reply must be the malicious reply I have ever read in this group and I hope the moderator takes notice. I was intending to get industry statistics for my marketing material and not a arbitrary number to feed to people. It comes back to my point in my last pointing. People should keep their philosophical points to themselves; no one wants them or cares for them they provide nothing to the users of this group. Please stick to experience and industry numbers they go a long way to help people. Wishing ill onto others as Justin did does not help anyone nor I guarantee it will do a lot for Justin's career. Some of the statistics I have come across are stated below; 90% of all companies that got compromised lat year had a firewall 70% of all attacks happen at the application level 25% of exploits had patch readily available -SKP -----Original Message----- From: Justin Pryzby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 10:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Firewall configuration statistics Well, seeing as I just received duplicates of last months mail, I guess I may as well respond. My intent in giving SKP two opposite and conflicting statistics is to reveal the meaningless nature of the question. Whether marketing material says 2% of firewalls are misconfigured or 98% are doesn't matter. It is a matter of opinion, and I have given SKP my own meaningless authority to state whatever he wants. I hope I have also given him the motivation to realize that what he wants is an arbitrary number to feed to people; I want him to get neither satisfaction nor sales from publishing whatever number he decides to use. Justin On Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 04:48:02PM +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Thank you Greg. I totally agree. If people would just answer questions based > on real life experience and knowledge and leave the philosophy to the > politicians I think everyone in this group will be happy. > > > -SKP > > -----Original Message----- > From: NC Agent [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:01 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Firewall configuration statistics > > > What you received is the reason why I will not post a serious question > to the list. The list has fallen into one of opinion not fact. So folks, > as SKP gets more and more frustrated, and stops using the list for > serious business, maybe it has become time for us to get back to > business. Just my .005 worth. > > Greg Kane > SAIC > Senior Systems Security Engineer > CTSF-IA > Fort Hood, TX > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 6:16 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Firewall configuration statistics > > That makes absolutely no sense. Plus I am not looking for a > philosophical > answer. I was looking statistics for marketing. Does anyone know of a > good > reference site for firewall and other security statistics. > > SKP > > -----Original Message----- > From: Justin Pryzby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:18 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Firewall configuration statistics > > > Security, > > 100% of firewalls are misconfigured. I guarantee that no firewall > administrator has considered all of the posibilities that are out there. > Moreover, there are guaranteed bugs in the firewalling software itself. > > No firewalls are misconfigured. Computers do what they are told, and > the occasion cosmic ray bitflip is insignificant compared to human > error. FW admins who use broken software or write bad FW policies > deserve to suffer the consequences. > > Take your pick. As a user, I think all firewalls suck because at best > they are another layer for things to get f()'d up, and at worst they > prevent me from doing stuff. As an admin, I know of no more problems in > my current firewall configuration (-j DENY), but let me check. > > Unless you elaborate on whichever number you quote, it is meaningless. > Anyone who has ever deal with a firewall will know that. You will, > however, impress 99% of everone with a cool word like ''firewall''. > > Justin > > > On Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 12:42:26AM +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > I remember once reading that X amount of firewall's are misconfigured. > Does > > anyone know where I can get this statistic from? We are making some > new > > marketing material and I would like to include this stat in it. A > quotable > > source would be great. > > > > Thanks > > > > SKP > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --- > Evaluating SSL VPNs' Consider NEOTERIS, chosen as leader by top > analysts! > The Gartner Group just put Neoteris in the top of its Magic Quadrant, > while InStat has confirmed Neoteris as the leader in marketshare. > > Find out why, and see how you can get plug-n-play secure remote access > in > about an hour, with no client, server changes, or ongoing maintenance. > > Visit us at: http://www.neoteris.com/promos/sf-6-9.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---- > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Evaluating SSL VPNs' Consider NEOTERIS, chosen as leader by top analysts! > The Gartner Group just put Neoteris in the top of its Magic Quadrant, > while InStat has confirmed Neoteris as the leader in marketshare. > > Find out why, and see how you can get plug-n-play secure remote access in > about an hour, with no client, server changes, or ongoing maintenance. > > Visit us at: http://www.neoteris.com/promos/sf-6-9.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Evaluating SSL VPNs' Consider NEOTERIS, chosen as leader by top analysts! 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