Ron,

I agree with you that many bedside CC clinicians are not trained well enough to 
do sequential IVC monitring by ultrasound. I also, unfortunately, do not see 
the majority of nurse or physicians evaluate jugular filling during fluid 
resuscitation. 

Recognizing at-risk patients or under-resuscitated patients, while following 
their response to resuscitation is, first and foremost base on non-laboratory 
beside observations i.e. HR, BP, RR, Temp<36, LOC, Cap refill. The latter 
showed that over 2/3 of patients admitted to CC with prolonged cap refill went 
on to worsening organ function with less than 1/3 progressing to worsening 
organ function with normal cap refill .

When was the last time you saw a clinician check cap refill when his or her 
patient was oliguric or hypotensive? You may do it California Pacific Medical 
Center and my experience suggest it could and should be done much more than it 
is.

Monitoring IVC, CVP SvO2/CO and LA are all useful adjuncts but cannot compete 
with a thoughtful observant clinician.


Frank

Frank Sebat, MD, FCCP, FCCM 
Medical Director of Rapid Response System
And Clinical Methodologies
Kaweah Delta Health Care District Hospital 
Visalia, CA 
559 799 9171



-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Elkin <[email protected]>
To: Dr.Sunil T Pandya <[email protected]>
Cc: Sepsisgroups <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Sep 3, 2012 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: [Sepsis Groups] (no subject)


In many places, serial IVC ultrasounds by well trained clinicians for the 
purpose of monitoring resuscitation are impractical if not impossible. It would 
be a relatively simpler matter to resurrect basic bedside examination skills 
with serial estimations of CVP based upon neck vein assessments. This has 
served us well until a central line is placed. 

Ron Elkin, MD
California Pacific Medical Center
San Francisco, CA 94115




On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Dr.Sunil T Pandya <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Dr.Ibrahim,
IVC - US dimensions with respirations does give a fair bit of idea of volume 
status in the ER. Yes, one need to get trained and develop the skills of 
handling USG.  Specificity increases if IVC-US is clubbed with 2D Echo - 
assessing LV / RV contractility!
Sunil 

------------
 
Dr.Sunil T Pandya


Hon. Secretary, Association of Obstetric Anaesthesiologists, India 
(www.aoaindia.com)
Hon. Secretary, Society of Obstetric Medicine, India


Head, Dept. of Anaesthesia, Pain and Critical Care,
Fernandez Hospital (Health care for Women and the Newborn), 
www.fernandezhospital.com


Director, Prerna Anaesthesia and Critical Care Services Pvt Ltd 
(www.prernaanaesthesia.com)
Hyderabad, India.

 




On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Mohamed Ibrahim <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Friends,  does looking at the ivc diameter for patients presenting to the 
ED with sepsis give a picture of the volume status ? i hope most of the EDs 
would have an Ultrasound machine.                                           Dr 
Mohamed Ibrahim M.D,FAAEM
Madurai- India
Sent from my iPhone
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