Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Is the WS- vision achievable?

[Keith Harrison-Broninski]

I'm afraid I disagree, John. I trained as a mathematician, from which I learned that the best way to solve a difficult problem is to generalize it, in order to abstract out the essentials.  In fact, there is an argument that most breakthroughs in the physical sciences (as opposed to incremental discoveries) come from stepping back, not from taking a narrow focus.  My own recent work has been to look at the most complex business processes, in order to derive common underlying principles, and it turns out that you can analyse even the most apparently intractable processes using a small core set of techniques - which then apply just as well to simple processes, of course. My frustration with the current state of affairs in enterprise IT is that most people are looking only at problems that they can solve with technologies they happen to like.  Or at least know.  Or sell!   If there is a problem that doesn't appear to be suitable for their pet technologies, they just sweep it under the carpet.  IMHO, this won't do.  If we're going to discuss business processes, let's discuss real ones, not textbook examples that just happen to suit our favourite technologies. Apart from anything else, my feeling is that we are heading for a process maintenance disaster in a few years.  Unless we start to deal properly with real-world process change management issues, SOA will not succeed.  It will end up as just another part of the problem. -- All the best Keith http://keith.harrison-broninski.info John Hirsch wrote: Kieth: I agree that there are MORE complex ones. Railroads are another. BUT if we can set a baseline on a simple one the QUESTIONS raised by a complex one, should be easier to answer. I worked for Trilogy, which built the 'build your own' web model. (Good or bad...??) They handled the 'complexity' problem when making choices by making everything PACKAGES..(you are used to that for automobiles)... Railroads have multi-layered rates, depending on a LARGE number of variables...Not just the PRESENCE of variables, but the ABSENCE of variables... Anyway...start small, build a model for small, see if it works for complex...eh? John --- Keith Harrison-Broninski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The model Raja describes works for some businesses - the classic exemplar being Dell. But this is actually a special case, miniscule in percentage terms if you look at the business world overall. Most businesses "building to order" have sales processes that are far more complex. SPONSORED LINKS Service-oriented architecture Computer monitoring software Computer and internet software Free computer monitoring software YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  Visit your group "service-orientated-architecture" on the web.    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.