>I don't use XML over the wire...
 
Gregg, of your perspective on that subject, I am very aware :-)
 
> would not say that XML-SG is what I mean by digital-signature
 
Never mind... Bit slow to catch up, but I figured out that you meant to shorten "XML Security Gateway".
 
>only reason that these devices seem useful is if you've chosen XML
 
I have chosen XML and this discussion has centered on web services security.
 
>This is my point.  You can put in all these devices that defend you from the
>world, but you still need to defend yourself from internal attacks.
 
I, for one, have no disagreements with you on this point. In fact, I am in violent agreement!
 
It would appear that the inital focus of this discussion thread has veered off-course (Not a new thing for this list). As noted in my inital response (which was a reply to a comment that the exisiting web service security standards are not mature enough), I believe that the current web service security standards are mature enough for building a defense-in-depth implementation of a web service security infrastructure.  I also believe that in implementing this defense-in-depth strategy, at the current stage of technology, a XML Security Gateway does have a role (There are others who disagree.. C'est la vie). There are other processes and mechanisms that need to put in place to fully implement this at the Network, Host and Application levels so that security is considered in a holistic manner and not as a bolt-on. Again very true and is something I am fully in agreement with.
 
Regards,
 
- Anil


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