Every organization (that does not want to bleed money and waste
resources) needs a mechanism to synch up its need to deliver
capabilities with the ability to do so.
So the question then becomes, what approach/style "best" allows you to
do so? I would argue that SOA is such an approach in the current
environment. So the question of limiting it to external only vs.
internal would be something which would be driven by how deep you want
that synchronization to be.
Regards,
- Anil
________________________________
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Michael Poulin
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Schurter on BPM,
SOA & Software
Sure, it is clear. However, the question stays: Does every
organisation needs SOA?
The nature of a business (except research, probably) is a
service. Depending on the business subject, it may or may not require
SOA organisation of the IT. Sometime the business environment (partners,
suppliers) pushes SOA onto the one, which has to deal with its partners
in service-oriented manner. Can this one keep services for external
communications only and insist they are too expensive for the internal
needs, or the one just has not properly calculated SOA ROI?
- Michael
Dan Creswell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Michael Poulin wrote:
> I read a lot about Fidelity and I believe Prashant -
it is about
> planning, estimation, calculations and
re-architecture, not about
> implementation. And the architecture teams there are
very strong (in
> the best possible way) to my knowledge.
>
> Anyway, Dan's comment leads to a statement: SOA is an
ABSOLUTE winner,
> if you build it properly, for ANY enterprise. Is this
true? Does
Ah, I hope you didn't read my post to mean that.
What I was getting at is that I've seen far too many
occasions where
projects using new approaches and technologies cost lots
of money
because the people involved think they're doing things
the new way.
In reality they're still doing everything, requirements,
design,
implementation the old way and attempting to force that
old way onto the
new with disastrous results. Basically, these projects
cost more
because the impedance mismatch between organization and
approach/technology has just got bigger.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are many
companies that claim to
be "doing" SOA where if you looked at the before and
after pictures,
you'd see no difference.
Hope that's clearer,
Dan.
> everybody needs SOA? I recall a few publications with
check-points -
> where a SOA solution might be needed; it was not for
everythig...
>
> - Michael
>
> */Dan Creswell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:dan%40dancres.org> >/* wrote:
>
> Michael Poulin wrote:
> >
> > So, at least, two big companies in financial
industry, IBT and
> Fidelity,
> > claim that "SOA'ziation" IS more expensive and takes
longer time to
> > build than regular applications used in this
industry. Why? My
> guess, it
> > is because they are doing well already, without SOA.
Or, their systems
> > are already service-oriented enough for the
corporate tasks(!?).
> >
>
> Hmmm, well there could be lots of reasons but an
obvious one, at least
> to me, is that staff need to go get their heads around
a new way of
> building systems and then they must build the new
stuff and maybe
> integrate the old stuff too.
>
> If after several project's it's still more expensive
then:
>
> (1) They mightn't be getting the benefit they thought
they would
>
> (2) Their staff just can't cope with the new methods
>
> (3) The new tech they're using isn't up to much
>
> .......
>
> Two cents,
>
> Dan.
>
> > I understand that "it is much much harder to make
sure they are
> > conceptualized , design and coded to stay qualified
as
> re-useable"; this
> > is because SOA mentality has not been accepted "down
the line", to the
> > development. We know, this will take time and
efforts. However,
> when we
> > are talking that SOA requires "more $$'s", I am
curious, in comparison
> > to what?
> >
> > From enterprise perspectives (not from individual
project, however),
> > counting just development expenses is close to
cheating because
> the cost
> > rocketing up in the maintenance and modification.
SOA addresses
> the very
> > latter part and overall cost gets lower with SOA,
for the enterprise.
> >
> > The concept of a "system in which various GUI's
consume services
> that we
> > build as part of SOA", if quite rich and lucrative.
I am working
> on this
> > right now as well. However, I found that it can be
implemented
> > iteratively, i.e. not everything behind GUI should
be a service right
> > away. I am talking about 'transition' layer of
proxies that to be
> > replaced when the services are ready. As a result,
investment into
> > analysis and estimates gets spread over multiple
projects for certain
> > period of time and appears as a strategic roadmap.
This also wins some
> > time to make up the development minds to think in
services.
> >
> > - Michael Poulin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > */"Sarode, Prashant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:prashant.sarode%40ibtco.com>
> <mailto:prashant.sarode%40ibtco.com>>/* wrote:
> >
> > Interesting comment-'SOA is a lifestyle'
> >
> > I just came out of an big program estimation mtg in
which I was
> > pointed that the SOA'ziation of program was an
expensive life-style
> > and how using 2007 technology we still need all
those big hrs to
> > build an system in which various GUI's consume
services that we
> > build as part of SOA.
> >
> > It is easy to identify re-useable business services
w/n an
> > enterprise but it is much much harder to make sure
they are
> > conceptualized , design and coded to stay qualified
as re-useable
> > after the initial reuse discovery.
> >
> > Hence, long and expensive estimates and surprise to
non-tech savy as
> > to why it will take longer and more $$'s to do
SOA'ization of
> > business solutions.
> >
> > Prashant Sarode
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
[email protected]
<mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com>
>
<mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <[email protected]
<mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com>
>
<mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > To: [email protected]
<mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com>
>
<mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <[email protected]
<mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com>
>
<mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Sent: Fri Jan 19 07:29:37 2007
> > Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture]
Schurter on BPM, SOA
> > & Software
> >
> > Hmmm. BPM is something you do, not something you
buy. Sounds an
> > awful lot like SOA to me. I have plenty of examples
of companies
> > that have saved lots of money, improved
time-to-market, and reduce
> > application maintenance through proper application
of SOA
> > principles.In the process, they also consolidated
their application
> > portfolio and gotten a much better handle on their
data. But in
> > order to do so, you have to do a fair amount of
enterprise planning,
> > pick the right projects, deploy a shared
infrastructure, institute a
> > governance program, and change the way people design
and build
> systems.
> >
> > SOA is NOT about technology, but technology can
facilitate its
> > adoption. SOA is a set of design principles, and to
be successful
> > with SOA, you must adopt those principles. SOA is a
lifestyle.
> >
> > Anne
> >
> >
> > On 1/19/07, Gervas Douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:gervas.douglas%40gmail.com>
> <mailto:gervas.douglas%40gmail.com>
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:gervas.douglas%40gmail.com>
> <mailto:gervas.douglas%40gmail.com>
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:gervas.douglas%40gmail.com>
> <mailto:gervas.douglas%40gmail.com>>>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > There are some comments on SOA and its business
value which may
> > interest you here:
> >
> >
> >
>
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/2
70
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270>
>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270> >
> >
>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270>
>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270> >>
> >
>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270>
>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270> >
> >
>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270>
>
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/business-process-management/message/
270> >>>
> >
> > Gervas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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