Steve, here are a few considerations:
1) "mixing page flow and orchestration" - with Ajax expect significant page
flow reduction; for a function in a page (the function might be reusable
itself) I assume a Web component that orchestrates Interface Services. So, the
Web components decouples orchestration from the page information flow. I have
found that in my financial pages many functions repeat in different business
contexts, e.g. the same functions in almost all fund products. That is, I can
engage the same Transformation Service in the Presentation tier.
2) as of single domain, once again, my "subscription" Web component can play a
role of a point of indirection. That is, unmmanageable (due to the browser)
Ajax risk of cross-domain security gets delegated to the manageable Web
component.
3) without "Interface Business Services", I see a gap between the best user
interface and the best Business Service(s). Would you agree?
- Michael
Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I can
see a few problems with this approach, firstly mixing page flow and
orchestration is a little dangerous in my experience it tends to lead to very
bulky frontends that become very hard to maintain and also very inflexible as
the orchestration and process elements become directly represented by the
pages.
The second is that from a security perspective most AJAX approaches bar the
invocation of multiple servers which means they could only orchestrate things
from a single domain name.
Personally I stick by the old Unix philosophy of "do one thing well",
front-ends should aim to be the best interface for the user, no more and no
less.
Steve
On 21/05/07, JP Morgenthal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Michael,
Regarding your Business UI point, that's an excellent way to express what I
was trying to say. And, yes, that is exactly what I have found.
JP
__________________________________
JP Morgenthal
President & CEO
Avorcor, Inc.
46440 Benedict Drive
Suite 103
Sterling, VA 20164
(703) 444-1130 x 4: Office
(703) 554-5301 : Cell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__________________________________
SOA success is just a click away...
On May 18, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Michael Poulin wrote:
I have question and a statement.
Q: What does mean "the browser, by means of Ajax, becomes the orchestrator of
services"? Ajax does not orchestrate anything but update the dispalyed elements
(including data), neither in client nor in service streming pattern...
S: I have obviously found that the Business Interface and User Experience model
have different logic than the Business Service and we cannot simly say that it
is just a Business Service with (or w/o) a UI. So, this leads to the
recognition of the Business Interface service- a sort of lightweight Business
Services oriented to the business human user (user experience requirements) .
Did anybody find anything similar to this?
- Michael
Ashish Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
But, you wouldn't do these transactional (or orchestration) tasks from the RIA
(the
browser), would you? Are you suggesting that the browser becomes not just the
interface
for some app that orchestrates the services (which is itself a service), but
that the browser,
by means of Ajax, becomes the orchestrator of services? If that's the case, it
would worry
me. If not, then I don't understand the comment I would expect the
transactional update
to itself be a service and the RIA is simply an interface to this service,
which then does boil
down to a CRUD operation on a document (the input message for this
orchestrator
service).
Thx,
-Ashish
--- In service-orientated-architecture@ yahoogroups.com, JP Morgenthal
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From my experience, manipulating a CRUD layer from a RIA is simple.
> The more difficult aspect, especially in a mashup, is perform ing
> transactional tasks across this CRUD layer. For example, if you need
> to update two systems simultaneously, then, today, the model falls
> apart unless you own the entire infrastructure and can generate the
> transaction inside the CRUD layer.
> ____________ ______________________
> JP Morgenthal
> President & CEO
> Avorcor, Inc.
> 46440 Benedict Drive
> Suite 103
> Sterling, VA 20164
> (703) 444-1130 x 4: Office
> (703) 554-5301 : Cell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ______________________________ ____
> SOA success is just a click away...
>
> On May 14, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Ashish Deshpande wrote:
>
> > --- In service-orientated-architecture@ yahoogroups.com, Michael
> > Poulin <m3poulin@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > In the Presentation layer, user experience is not bound any more
> > to the fragmented web
> > pages and page flows running exceptionally in synchronous mode; in
> > the Business layer,
> > there is no need for special components but only services; in
> > between layers, there is no
> > need any more or traditional Web application' facades, adapters,
> > etc.) but just data
> > transformation and service subscription utilities. Data
> > transformation is bi-directional:
> > from/to the Business Interfaces/User interface format to/from
> > business services'
> > interfaces format. That is, Web apps shrink into data
> > transformation facilities.
> >
> > Exactly most real web applications boil down to CRUD operations
> > on documents. And
> > web services tend to expose these operations on documents or
> > combinations thereof (a
> > business process or service). What's missing is an easy way to
> > interact with these
> > documents using Rich Internet Applications (RIAs). That's where
> > Ajax comes in it puts a
> > "face" on SOA and makes it possible to create complex, visual,
> > browser-based applications
> > by mashing up web services on your network. Just imagine
> > replicating the mashup
> > phenomenon within your company even just within the IT department.
> >
[snip]
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