A very good deconstruction by Paul, there is a sniff of the ex-smoker,
born-again Christian, Tee Totaller between the lines that Steve
Vinoski writes about REST v WS-*.

Use what works.  REST for meta-data traversal makes PERFECT sense,
especially (as with the registry) its aimed primarily at human
interaction where the semantics can be interpreted by a superb engine
that is specialised in that task.

Steve


2008/12/1 Gervas Douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> <<Steve Vinoski has written an article applying Christensen's famous
> book, The Inventor's Dilemma, to the REST and WS-* argument. For those
> of you who don't know, Steve is a strong supporter of REST models.
> Steve was previously a major dude in the CORBA world, and like many
> converts, has taken a very strong stance against his previous position.
>
> I pretty much have stopped arguing about REST and Web Services. One of
> the things open source has taught me is to react well to customers. If
> a customer is interested in using a SOAP solution, I help them. If a
> customer wants to use a RESTful model, I help them do that too. And I
> try to look at their individual scenario and understand what is the
> most appropriate technology for them.
>
> Steve's argument is phrased in terms of RPC, and he portrays WS-* as
> the culmination of the RPC model. In fact many of the architectures I
> am involved in building on top of WS-* for customers are not RPC -
> they are either long-running asynchronous or event driven. It is a
> fundamental error to say that SOAP is an RPC format.
>
> In my experience, very few customers care about WS-* vs. REST: they
> care about building something that is effective, maintainable, fits
> with their skill set and developers, and that scales well.
>
> Given my lack of interest in arguing about REST and WS-*, I considered
> ignoring that Steve has chosen the WSO2 Registry as an exemplar in his
> article. On the other hand, his example is wrong in so many, many
> ways, I can't resist the need to set him straight.
>
> Here is what Steve has to say:
>
> "For example, WSO2 uses Atom4 and AtomPub5 (both built on RESTful
> HTTP) within its registry product (www.wso2.com/products/registry/),
> which is part of a set of open source products based on SOA and WS-*.
> Somewhat ironically, the registry uses a RESTful approach to handle
> the publication and lookup of metadata for non-RESTful RPC-oriented
> Web services. Christensen refers to this approach as "cramming," in
> which firms try to capitalize on disruptive technologies by
> incorporating them into sustaining products;"
>
> Let's address the factual errors first and then address the more
> systemic problem in the article.
>
> Firstly, let's be clear about the WSO2 Registry: it is a new
> initiative, built from the ground up as a RESTful model. , and it is
> not limited to publication and lookup of metadata for non-RESTful
> services. For example, you could use it as the store for document
> descriptions, mime-type descriptors, WADL, RDDL, or many other RESTful
> description models. We built the WSO2 Registry in a RESTful way
> because we decided it was the most appropriate technology for managing
> metadata. You could say its ironic, but since 99.9% of the world's
> WSDLs are accessed via HTTP GET, you could also say it is simply
> extending the defacto standard. Of course being English, I consider
> Irony a good thing, and I often point out this same irony myself.
>
> Since the Inventor's Dilemma is also a lot about the human reaction to
> new technology, I think its also fair to point out that I have
> consistently criticized UDDI for over 5 years, both publicly in
> presentations and to anyone who asked me.
>
> I actually wonder if Steve has downloaded the Registry or looked at it
> beyond the fact that it uses Atom and AtomPub. Why? Because if he had,
> he would have realized that the main aspect of the Registry is a Web
> interface. The Atom and AtomPub are secondary to most users, because
> the main interaction is humans using a Web browser. And mostly if a
> user comes across the Atom, its in their feedreader, which is likely
> an extension of their browser.
>
> Steve goes on to say:
>
> "In this case, the benefits of REST are hidden behind an
> RPC-oriented API for accessing the registry, and those benefits
> disappear completely as soon as an application uses the registry to
> find a non-RESTful service and starts to use it."
>
> Once again, this is a highly superficial view of the Registry. The
> benefits of the REST design permeate the use of this product. You can
> bookmark any page. You can point your tooling or code at a permanent
> URL pointing to a WSDL or a WADL or a Schema and know that it will
> always be there in exactly the version you want. You can subscribe to
> the Registry using your feed reader. You can follow links from
> dependents to dependencies. You can associate any kind of relationship
> between resources, and follow those relationships as hypertext. These
> real and important benefits of the REST design are why we chose it, no
> more, no less.
>
> The core API is highly RESTful and built around the concept of
> Resource as a first class concept.
>
> I think its clear that Steve is taking a superficial view of the
> registry in order to make a point - he thought "cramming" was an
> essential point of Christensen's model and so he looked around for a
> target. And this is the systemic problem with this article.
>
> The scientific method is that you propose a theory, and you
> dispassionately look for evidence to prove or disprove the theory.
> Unfortunately Steve has proposed a theory - that the Inventor's
> Dilemma maps neatly onto the REST vs WS-* argument - and then applied
> his strong viewpoint to bias the outcome. The whole article starts
> from the premise that REST is the answer and then goes on to prove
> that. Funny how that happens.
>
> So my advice - take a look at the WSO2 Registry yourself.>>
>
> You can find Paul's blog at:
>
> http://pzf.fremantle.org/
>
> Gervas
>
> 

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