Anne, are you suggesting that Blizzard Entertainment Inc., if they port World-of-Warcraft to the iPad, should convert to using HTTP and URIs so that the lag response will be reduced and the users will have a much better experience than they have now on desktop/laptop devices?
Can you provide some details of how HTTP provides less lag than UDP does, and how TCP resend delays are no longer a problem in real-time multi-media systems because HTTP is used on top of TCP? Gregg Wonderly Anne Thomas Manes wrote: > > > Responding to this specific comment: > > "HTTP and URI (which isn't REST) " > > > Well, actually, HTTP and URI *is* REST. Or at least it's the essence of > REST. All interfaces, all interesting bits of information, all > interactions, and all application workflow in a RESTful application are > driven by HTTP and URIs. As Stefan Tilkov says, REST is using HTTP as it > was intended. > > REST is: > > * Everything of interest has an identifier and the format of those > identifiers is uniform (e.g., a URI) > * Every identified resource supports a uniform API (e.g., HTTP methods) > * The application uses hypermedia to coordinate application state > and the process flow (HATEOAS) > > REST is entirely about HTTP and URIs. > > If you intend to support the iPad as a UI device for your service, you > should design the service so that client applications can interact with > it using HTTP and URIs. > > Anne > > On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 2:41 AM, Steve Jones <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > On 6 April 2010 17:29, Stuart Charlton <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Long time no see. comments inline > > > Internet issues in Oz. > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 2010-04-05, at 1:44 PM, Steve Jones <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> >> The other piece that the iPad/iPhone has really demonstrated >> is how rarely services are actually re-used between multiple >> areas in the "web". Sure there are a bunch of twitter clients >> but most people using Facebook seem to use the standard >> Facebook app and most other server/consumer applications are >> equally tied to a specific server side implementation that is >> used by only one client set. Whether these elements use REST, >> SOAP or anything else is irrelevant as they are tied >> applications in a more client/server style mode than a "web" >> mode. >> > The web currently is an extension of a client/server > architecture... whether the client is a browser or a dedicated > client is somewhat immaterial. > > > Agreed, but this isn't the "vision" that is preached around the web > architecture pieces. > > > > >> For me the iPhone really demonstrates how little there >> genuinely is of the "web" application model and how in reality >> we are still at a technical client/server model with clients >> tied to servers. IMO part of this is driven by REST and its >> lack of proscribed documentation thus making interfaces >> obscure to anyone other than those who wrote it. > > I wont disagree that there is a lack of documentation.... but > are you seriously claiming that crappy REST API's are > responsible for why there are so many iPhone apps instead of > just relying on browser-based apps? > > > I think its part of it, but not on the iPhone apps v browser based > but on the "tied" model of client/server rather than one service > multiple clients (twitter aside). > > > > > >> The iPhone/iPad do not demonstrate that REST rules, arguably >> they prove quite the opposite, they prove that a client/server >> model with proprietary APIs rules and that the "power" of the >> web is trumped hugely by a closed garden model. > > Last I checked, the best and most widely used application on the > iPad was Safari. The multitouch web experience is easily the > biggest draw on these devices. And that all of the apps, music, > or vids you download from iTunes are available via hyperlinks > that can be communicated and shared with others. And that > nearly every application grabs its content from servers via HTTP > and URI, and can allow you to copy those URIs and use them > elsewhere. > > > Not disagreeing but there is a jump from HTTP/URIs and REST as an > architectural approach. I don't disagree that HTTP and URIs are > absolutely key here. > > > > Yes, there are plenty of proprietary APIs layered on top of > those standards. Time will hopefully help to standardize new > media types where they are needed. > > But don't hold your breath on that one, its been 5+ years that > people have been talking about that stuff and what progress has been > made? > > > > > > What the iPhone and iPad does is show the Web is not just about > browsers. I think you are confusing the politicized process of > HTML standards development with architecture. How can the world > suddenly adapt all platforms to a new UI paradigm? It takes > time to standardize deployed practice. The flood of iApps are > an expected occurrence because a piece of the Web, HTML, has to > catch up. Yet both HTTP and URI remain crucial (if incomplete) > to the user experience on these devices. It is completely > disingenuous to claim this is all proprietary client/server. > It is, at worst, partially proprietary. Like most evolving > information exchange protocols... > > > What I'm saying is that while HTTP and URI (which isn't REST) are > critical to the user experiences the actual service implementations > are effectively proprietary (or partially proprietary if you like) > in that a given server side implementation has a fixed client side. > There isn't really an new UI paradigm, the iPhone, beyond things > like multi-touch, is "just" a rich client platform and people are > building client/server applications in the same way they always have > by developing them together with the express purpose of them being > used as a coherent lump that just happens to be split between a > client and server. > > Its great that we've moved to a common protocol like HTTP and have a > common approach like URIs but the "vision" of service assembly > hasn't been delivered in reality by REST in anyway shape or form. > > So just to be clear > > HTTP/URIs are a good thing and are used pretty much everywhere > 99% of iPhone/iPad apps are developed in a client/server mindset in > the same way as client/server applications were developed 20 years ago. > > Steve > > > > Stu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for the perfect gift?* Give the gift of Flickr!* > <http://www.flickr.com/gift/> > > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! 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