Hi jon, the problem I have (and it could just be my understanding of Dash), is that it seems to get involved in the layout of web pages, e.g. from the dash homepages: "The Layout module is called from the Page module. This modules defines the physical Layout of a webpage. It generally defines the location of the Navigation portion (ie: the top and bottom part of the webpage) as well as the location of where the body (or Screen) of the page is. The Layout module executes the Screen module to build the body of the webpage. It executes the Navigation modules to build the portions of the webpage which define the navigation for the website. " When we do projects, we don't want any code getting involved in the design (or look and feel) of the pages - that's the job of the page designers, on an ongoing basis, not something they hand over to our servlet framework. "our sites are designed by designers and engineered by engineers. seems to make sense to me. i don't understand why companies, who have the resources to devote to the project, always want to try to combine the two. that is the market that JSP is trying to cover and it does not make sense to me that that market exists in the first place." I don't think that JSP is trying to combine the two; it's giving people freedom to screw up however they want, or to architect however they want. IMHO this is a good thing. The maintenance of the pages should be the realm of people with graphics skill, not programmers like me who can't draw stick men. JSP allows you to do MVC, it also allows you to not do it. But it doesn't force it either way. "coupled with a code management system like CVS, Dash fully allows a team of programmers to work on the site all at the same time and still provide a high level of security and engineering consistency for the entire site." I don't want a team of programmers working on the site...I want a team of programmers AND a team of graphic designers..... -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Play: http://www.trongus.com ----- Forwarded by dIon Gillard/Multitask Consulting/AU on 04/08/99 09:45 AM ----- > I've gotta disagree with the comment below. > > In the web application field, dynamic sites are done by a team. Part of > the team focuses solely on view (look and feel). These people aren't > programmers. Part of the team focuses on back end services (model). These > people are programmers. > > Most dynamic sites done by programmers are butt ugly. > Most dynamic sites done by Graphic artists are butt ugly under the covers > (security, scalability, performance). That is why we use the Dash model to do some things at Clear Ink. Designers come in and give us mockups (valid html) for the site based on a functional specification document that has been reviewed by both the engineers and the designers. Once the engineers have the design of the site in hand, they then code up the html using ECS and make the web application functional following the Dash model. This has worked extremely well for us for almost 2 years now. It is a totally different way of doing things than other shops and only really works in the model of creating sites that are web applications (such as e-commerce sites and wizard type applications). IMHO, for less sophisticated (ie: header/footer type dynamic sites where that is the only portion that is really dynamic) a template system such as freemarker/webmacro/jsp/gsp/etc works really well. Of course they can be used for web applications, but to me that is a more difficult way to create, maintain and debug the application. our sites are designed by designers and engineered by engineers. seems to make sense to me. i don't understand why companies, who have the resources to devote to the project, always want to try to combine the two. that is the market that JSP is trying to cover and it does not make sense to me that that market exists in the first place. coupled with a code management system like CVS, Dash fully allows a team of programmers to work on the site all at the same time and still provide a high level of security and engineering consistency for the entire site. <http://www.working-dogs.com/dash/> -jon ___________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "signoff SERVLET-INTEREST". Archives: http://archives.java.sun.com/archives/servlet-interest.html Resources: http://java.sun.com/products/servlet/external-resources.html LISTSERV Help: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/user/user.html
