Paul Philion wrote:
>Andy Bailey wrote:
>> Just because JSP has some of its roots in ASP does not mean that JSP is a
>> bad thing. It means the ASP designers can leverage their familiarity
>> with the structure of ASP files over to JSP. JSP 1.0 certainly is a big
>> improvement on ASP and ASP has, at its heart, a terribly flawed language
>> which JSP's do not.
>>
>> JSP was an attempt to provide the power of servlets to web developers in
>an
>> already familiar format. Eminently sensible as it means no one who is
>> familiar with ASP and Java need learn something new.
>
>I should have ordered my points differently: This point becomes more
>powerful (for me at least) after making the point that the basic ASP
>principle -- embedding code in an HTML page -- makes (IMHO) for a poor
>architecture. In fact, I think it encourages it. Assuming that this is a
>valid opinion (obviously I do) it follows that I think that people at Sun
>made a *marketing* decision to push JSP. Yes, JSP if far superior to ASP;
>but it still allows the mangling of HTML with code.
It is definitely true that JSP *allows* the mangling of HTML with
code, and I would likewise argue that this is a practice which should
be avoided at all cost. Given the latest revs of the JSP spec,
however, it is also true that JSP most certainly does not *require*
mangling of HTML with code. Through good design of server-side
JavaBeans and use of the new tag extension capabilities in JSP 1.1,
it is quite possible to build useful web applications based on JSP
pages that have absolutely no Java code in them whatsoever.
If you're willing to accept (and code) application-specific custom
tags, separation of presentation and business logic can definitely be
achieved using JSPs. Based on our experience, if you don't want code
in your JSPs, it doesn't have to be there.
I also have some concerns about how JSP is being marketed, but at the
same time I believe the underlying technology has serious merit.
>In conclusion: I feel *very* strongly about separation of logic and
>presentation. I work on a team with about 8 programmers and 20
>HTML/graphics people. Look-and-feel change on a daily basis, and I can't be
>involved with each time someone needs to change the color of a cell or the
>number of rows in a table. I would go crazy if my templates weren't simple,
>clean and easily supported by normal HTML people.
Amen! We have a similar situation here (though our team is a bit
smaller), and have been very satisfied with JSPs.
- Mark
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