At 08:26 AM 10/13/00 -0500, Howard Taylor wrote:
>I have been on this little "chat" board for less than 24 hours and I have
Firstly, its a mailing list, not a chat.
>seen enough to confirm to me that Java is a bad tool.
If you flip a coin and get heads 5 times in a row, would that
confirm to you that the coin only had heads?
>I have never in my
>life seen a development tool that is so misunderstood.
See "gun". I bet it surpasses "java" in being misunderstood as
a development tool.
>No one knows how to use.
Speak for thyself. Major companies have been using Java successfully
for 5 years now.
>It is about as crude as COBOL.
Hey... its a crude, crude world. Programming languages are new to
the human race. We're all still learning what software really is
and how to manage it. In a sense, I agree with you. In another
sense... bullocks.
>I have never seen anything like it.
See C++. See Simula. See Smalltalk. See Self. See UCSD Pascal.
>The lack of professional documentation should send a strong message to the
>programming community.
And that message is that programmers should write improved,
professional documentation. Who would disagree with you?
What documentation is totally perfect? Try reading a VCR manual
when you get disgruntled with the Java docs.
>Error messages come up and there is no way in this
>world to find out what they mean.
??? Look up Exceptions in a good Java book. Try the O'Reilly
Nutshell reference guide.
>Just look at some of the questions that come across these emails.
Visit anyone of the bazillion usenet groups and you will see a similar
percentage of good and bad questions. Try the guitar and cooking
groups when you want to waste some time on a rainy saturday.
>I have yet to see someone answer a question posted.
Some people like me post answers directly to people due to the
specificity of their problem.
>That is because nobody can say with any degree of confidence that
>their solution will work from machine to machine.
I can. I run a multi-million dollar organization that writes
mission-critical Java apps for Fortune 500 corporations. We make
sure they run on PC's, Solaris and Linux.
>Isn't Java supposed to be OS independent?
Yes in theory. But if you believe MarketingSpeak, you deserve
all the frustration you get. Its the real world. Who believes
the marketing from any of these companies? Does Ivory soap really
get things 99 44/100% clean? Is Frosted Flakes really *GREAT*?
(hmmm... where's the spec on that...) Do 3 out of 4 dentists really
think that Crest is the best decay-preventing dentifrice?
>Why does code work on one machine and not another?
Because we live in the real world. Why does some HTML work in Netscape
and not IE and vice versa? How come you sometimes get static on
your cable tv? Why do cops sometimes beat up the innocent? How come
politicians lie?
Java makes most of your code portable. You may still have to tweak
things for the platform. Having the vast majority of your code
portable is still a humongous win.
>Why are there so many different development tools that are supposed to do the
>same thing?
Choice is good, unless you are Bill Gates.
>Why is it that all of these tools install and leave a
>directory structure behind that a person using a different tool can't
>recognize?
Switch to Linux or Solaris. That's a complaint of Windoze.
>Java is just a huge shit sandwich that SUN is trying to ram
>down our throats in their little battle with Microsoft.
whoa... some people take offense at that. Let's calm down. Eat
some bananas to get your blood pressure down. Stop with the 4-letter
words. Have some professionalism. Count to 10...
>We have very talented programmers on staff where I work and we cannot get
>any consistency out of Java.
We have the opposite experience. We get total consistency. But
we work at it.
>PEOPLE, HEAR THIS ... no one will ever have
>success making a car that can accept parts from other cars ... PERIOD.
??? Apparently you have never worked on cars before. Mention
this statement to a car-fan friend of yours. Its clearly wrong.
>There is no way that Java will ever work. There are too many variables
>involved from machine to machine to allow Java to run consistently. Let's
>take a web site that runs applets. You can bet your ass that a good number
>of people who hit the site will have an error when that applet tries to
>run. It happens every day when I get on. As soon as that happens to me I
>am out of there and you just lost my interest/BUSINESS.
So don't use applets. Its a simple decision. Why criticize Java
for this? Its just a tool. You use it where you need it. Its not
a silver bullet. Only Coors has a silver bullet.
>Even if you think you can make it work was it worth all the time it took?
Yep. Some of our wall street clients run multi-trillion dollars
through the systems we have built.
>Hardly. I have been trying to get a very simple servlet to run that I got
>out of the Deitel & Deitel Java How To book. D&D swears it runs on their
>machines. Why won't it run here. I have sent numerous emails to them and
>they have been trying to figure out what is wrong but can't. These guys
>are supposed to know what they are doing. A perfect example of the
>instability of Java.
Deitel & Deitel's book is not a good one imo. Don't blame poor
teaching on Java. They bring up applets early. That is a bad
teaching strategy imho. Bring up applets later (if at all).
Teach polymorphism first.
>How many millions of man-hours are going to be wasted on Java before IS
>managers realize it doesn't work? We need to get back to the business of
>client server programming and trash this cancer of a tool.
ah... you're a troll. Should have known... I needed a mental
break anyway.
>I CHALLENGE SUN TO DEFEND THIS PRODUCT. IT DOES NOT WORK AS BRAGGED.
You know, you could say the same thing about democracy, television,
fat-free yogurt and electric toothbrushes.
Frank
- end of coffee break.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled programs.
+======================================================================+
| Crossroads Technologies Inc, 55 Broad Street, 28th Fl, NYC, NY 10004 |
| Java Wireless Application Engineering |
| Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.CrossroadsTech.com |
| Pager: 800-495-6244 ePager: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
| Voice: 212-482-5280 x229 Fax: 212-482-5281 |
+======================================================================+
___________________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body
of the message "signoff SERVLET-INTEREST".
Archives: http://archives.java.sun.com/archives/servlet-interest.html
Resources: http://java.sun.com/products/servlet/external-resources.html
LISTSERV Help: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/user/user.html
