Jira issue created:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KI-82

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Les Hazlewood
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:53 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: need more help with SSO
> 
> Hi Andy,
> 
> Can you please make note of this in a Jira issue?  I'll fix it right
> away, but I'd like a record of this so when I modify the code, I can
> comment exactly why the change is required to ensure someone in the
> future doesn't accidentally revert the change.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Les
> 
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Andy Tripp<[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > Les,
> >
> > I finally found the problem. This line...
> >   securityManager.sessionDAO = $sessionDAO
> > ...was being processed BEFORE this line...
> >   securityManager.sessionManager = $sessionManager
> >
> > In ReflectionBuilder.buildObjects(), instanceMap and propertyMap need to
> be LinkedHashMap type, not just HashMap. With HashMap, the properties in
> ShiroFilter are being processed in arbitrary order, rather than the order
> listed. That would explain why it works for you and not me - you got
> unlucky :)
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Andy Tripp [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:02 PM
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: RE: need more help with SSO
> >>
> >> Les,
> >> Sorry, that last email was a mistake on my part.
> >>
> >> Les,
> >>
> >> What I'm seeing now is that the DefaultWebSecurityManager instance's
> >> SessionManager is always set to ServletContainerSessionManager, when it
> >> should be a DefaultWebSessionManager. I tried adding these to my
> config:
> >>
> >>     sessionManager =
> org.apache.shiro.web.session.DefaultWebSessionManager
> >>     securityManager.sessionManager = $sessionManager
> >>
> >> ...but still, the DefaultWebSecurityManager.sessionManager field is an
> >> instance of ServletContainerSessionManager.
> >>
> >> I'm stumped. I guess I'm not clear on what SecurityManager instance is
> >> being called by this config stuff. Perhaps I'm missing some sort of:
> >>     something.securityManager = securityManager
> >>
> >> Andy
> >> p.s. here's my full [main] section of my filter:
> >>
> >>      realmA = org.apache.shiro.realm.text.PropertiesRealm
> >>      securityManager = org.apache.shiro.web.DefaultWebSecurityManager
> >>      sessionManager =
> >> org.apache.shiro.web.session.DefaultWebSessionManager
> >>      securityManager.sessionManager = $sessionManager
> >>
> >>      securityManager.sessionMode = native
> >>
> >>      cacheManager = org.apache.shiro.cache.DefaultCacheManager
> >>
> >>      sessionDAO = org.apache.shiro.session.mgt.eis.MemorySessionDAO
> >>      sessionDAO.cacheManager = $cacheManager
> >>      securityManager.sessionDAO = $sessionDAO
> >>      securityManager.cacheManager = $cacheManager
> >>
> >>      securityManager.realm = $realmA
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> On
> >> > Behalf Of Les Hazlewood
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:20 PM
> >> > To: [email protected]
> >> > Subject: Re: need more help with SSO
> >> >
> >> > Hrm - that would be very odd if the DefaultWebSecurityManager was not
> >> > the instance - that is what the ShiroFilter enables at startup by
> >> > default.  Just in case, try this as your very first config line:
> >> >
> >> > securityManager = org.apache.shiro.web.DefaultWebSecurityManager
> >> >
> >> > What does your debugger say is the securityManager instance?
> >> > Something is very strange...
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for the extra info.  Are there any JUnit tests you might be
> >> > able to send our way?
> >> >
> >> > - Les
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Andy Tripp<[email protected]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > Les,
> >> > > I put tracing code in DefaultWebSecurityManager.setSessionMode(),
> and
> >> it
> >> > appears that this method is not getting called. So the
> >> > ServletContainerSessionManager is not getting replace by a
> >> > DefaultWebSessionManager. So it appears that this line in the filter
> >> > config:
> >> > >
> >> > >   securityManager.sessionMode = native
> >> > >
> >> > > is having no effect (note that it's securityManager, not
> >> sessionManager
> >> > as you suggest in the previous response).
> >> > >
> >> > > I'll keep trying to track it down further, any pointers would be
> >> > appreciated. I'm off to try to find the some SecurityManager
> instance,
> >> > which I suspect is something other than a DefaultWebSecurityManager,
> >> which
> >> > would mean that this config line is failing silently.
> >> > >
> >> > > Obviously, all this dependency injection via XML is driving me
> >> > completely crazy. I may be allergic to server-side Java :)
> >> > >
> >> > > Andy
> >> > >
> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> On
> >> > >> Behalf Of Les Hazlewood
> >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 12:46 PM
> >> > >> To: [email protected]
> >> > >> Subject: Re: need more help with SSO
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Hi Andy,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> A quick note about the message: that was a bug in the exception
> >> > >> message, but the code is working as expected:  if the wrapped
> >> > >> SessionManager does not implement the SessionDAOAware interface,
> it
> >> > >> cannot be injected with a SessionDAO.  I have since fixed the
> message
> >> > >> to be correct and committed this change, although the code logic
> has
> >> > >> not been changed.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Also, make sure that you do this:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> sessionManager.sessionMode = native
> >> > >>
> >> > >> before you try to inject the SessionDAO.  The above call will
> >> > >> automatically substitute the ServletContainerSessionManager for a
> >> > >> DefaultWebSessionManager implementation on the fly.  This latter
> >> > >> implementation does in fact implement SessionDAOAware and should
> >> > >> readily accept SessionDAO instances that are passed through the
> >> > >> securityManager.setSessionDAO(...) call.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> In the meantime, I'll try to create a unit test with the
> ShiroFilter
> >> > >> to see I can accurately recreate your issue, but I've been
> strapped
> >> > >> for time lately - if you could create one (if possible) and post
> it
> >> to
> >> > >> a Jira issue, that would help a lot.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Regards,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Les
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Les
> >> Hazlewood<[email protected]>
> >> > >> wrote:
> >> > >> > Hi Andy,
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Thanks very much for sending this along - it is very helpful.
>  I'll
> >> > be
> >> > >> > able to look into this a bit more later tonight.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Regards,
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Les
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Andy
> >> Tripp<[email protected]>
> >> > >> wrote:
> >> > >> >> Les,
> >> > >> >> I tracked this problem down through a maze of try/catch blocks,
> I
> >> > see
> >> > >> this exception:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> javax.servlet.ServletException: Unable to load from text
> >> > configuration.
> >> > >> e2=org.apache.shiro.config.ConfigurationException:
> >> > >> org.apache.shiro.config.ConfigurationException: Unable to set
> >> property
> >> > >> [sessionDAO] with value [$sessionDAO].  If '$sessionDAO' is a
> >> reference
> >> > to
> >> > >> another (previously defined) object, please prefix it with '$' to
> >> > indicate
> >> > >> that the referenced object should be used as the actual value.
>  For
> >> > >> example, $$sessionDAO
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> ...which I tracked down to the
> ReflectionBuilder.applyProperty()
> >> > method
> >> > >> calling BeanUtils.setProperty() and catching an
> InvocationException.
> >> > The
> >> > >> cause of that exception is:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: The underlying session
> manager
> >> > is
> >> > >> null or does not implement the
> >> > org.apache.shiro.session.mgt.eis.SessionDAO
> >> > >> >> interface, which is required if the underlying instance is to
> >> > receive
> >> > >> the sessionDAO argument.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> ...which comes from SessionsSecurityManager.setSessionDAO(),
> which
> >> > >> checks
> >> > >> >> to see that the SessionDAO parameter implements
> SessionDAOAware.
> >> The
> >> > >> passed value is actually of class ServletContainerSessionManager,
> >> which
> >> > >> does NOT
> >> > >> >> implement SessionDAOAware.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> So I guess the mystery is why we're getting setSessionDAO()
> being
> >> > >> passed a ServletContainerSessionManager, when in fact we have this
> >> > config
> >> > >> line:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>   sessionDAO =
> org.apache.shiro.session.mgt.eis.MemorySessionDAO
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Hope this helps,
> >> > >> >> Andy
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> >>> From: Andy Tripp [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> > >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:04 AM
> >> > >> >>> To: [email protected]
> >> > >> >>> Subject: RE: need more help with SSO
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> Les,
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> I tried what you have below and still get the same "Unable to
> >> load
> >> > >> from
> >> > >> >>> text configuration" error. I tried it with the latest Shiro. I
> >> > >> narrowed
> >> > >> >>> the problem down to this line:
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> securityManager.sessionDAO = $sessionDAO
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> I get no errors with that line commented out.
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> Any ideas? If not, I could put some tracing in the
> >> > >> OncePerRequestFilter
> >> > >> >>> class to narrow the problem down further.
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> Andy
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> >>> > From: [email protected]
> >> > [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> > >> On
> >> > >> >>> > Behalf Of Les Hazlewood
> >> > >> >>> > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:11 PM
> >> > >> >>> > To: [email protected]
> >> > >> >>> > Subject: Re: need more help with SSO
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>> > Hi Andy,
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>> > I just verified that this simple test config works, although
> >> not
> >> > in
> >> > >> a
> >> > >> >>> > web environment:
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>> > ----
> >> > >> >>> > realmA = org.apache.shiro.realm.text.PropertiesRealm
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>> > securityManager.sessionMode = native
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>> > cacheManager = org.apache.shiro.cache.DefaultCacheManager
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>> > sessionDAO =
> org.apache.shiro.session.mgt.eis.MemorySessionDAO
> >> > >> >>> > sessionDAO.cacheManager = $cacheManager
> >> > >> >>> > securityManager.sessionDAO = $sessionDAO
> >> > >> >>> > securityManager.cacheManager = $cacheManager
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>> > securityManager.realm = $realmA
> >> > >> >>> > ----
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>> > Could you please try that out and see if it works in your
> web
> >> > >> >>> > environment?  If so, can you try substituting the
> >> > >> DefaultCacheManager
> >> > >> >>> > implementation (and your realm implementation) with with
> your
> >> > >> >>> > implementations and see what happens?
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>> > - Les
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>> > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Andy
> >> > Tripp<[email protected]>
> >> > >> >>> > wrote:
> >> > >> >>> > > Here's the complete tomcat log file:
> >> > >> >>> > >
> >> > >> >>> > > Aug 17, 2009 3:40:13 PM
> >> > org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext
> >> > >> >>> > filterStart
> >> > >> >>> > > SEVERE: Exception starting filter ShiroFilter
> >> > >> >>> > > javax.servlet.ServletException: Unable to load from text
> >> > >> >>> configuration.
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.shiro.web.servlet.OncePerRequestFilter.init(OncePerRequestFilte
> >> > >> >>> > r.java:148)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterConfig.getFilter(ApplicationFilt
> >> > >> >>> > erConfig.java:221)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterConfig.setFilterDef(ApplicationF
> >> > >> >>> > ilterConfig.java:302)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterConfig.<init>(ApplicationFilterC
> >> > >> >>> > onfig.java:78)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext.filterStart(StandardContext.java:
> >> > >> >>> > 3635)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext.start(StandardContext.java:4222)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.addChildInternal(ContainerBase.java
> >> > >> >>> > :760)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >>
> >> org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.addChild(ContainerBase.java:740)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >>
> org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHost.addChild(StandardHost.java:544)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig.deployDirectory(HostConfig.java:927
> >> > >> >>> > )
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig.deployDirectories(HostConfig.java:8
> >> > >> >>> > 90)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >>
> >> org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig.deployApps(HostConfig.java:492)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig.start(HostConfig.java:1150)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig.lifecycleEvent(HostConfig.java:311)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> org.apache.catalina.util.LifecycleSupport.fireLifecycleEvent(LifecycleSupp
> >> > >> >>> > ort.java:120)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >>
> org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.start(ContainerBase.java:1022)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHost.start(StandardHost.java:736)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >>
> org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.start(ContainerBase.java:1014)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >>
> >> org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngine.start(StandardEngine.java:443)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >>
> >> >
> org.apache.catalina.core.StandardService.start(StandardService.java:448)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >>
> >> org.apache.catalina.core.StandardServer.start(StandardServer.java:700)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.start(Catalina.java:552)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native
> >> > >> Method)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:
> >> > >> >>> > 39)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> >> > >> >>>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorIm
> >> > >> >>> > pl.java:25)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:597)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> >
> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap.start(Bootstrap.java:295)
> >> > >> >>> > >        at
> >> > >> >>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap.main(Bootstrap.java:433)
> >> > >> >>> > > Aug 17, 2009 3:40:13 PM
> >> > >> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationContext
> >> > >> >>> log
> >> > >> >>> > > INFO: org.apache.webapp.balancer.BalancerFilter: init():
> >> > >> ruleChain:
> >> > >> >>> > [org.apache.webapp.balancer.RuleChain:
> >> > >> >>> > [org.apache.webapp.balancer.rules.URLStringMatchRule: Target
> >> > string:
> >> > >> >>> News
> >> > >> >>> > / Redirect URL: http://www.cnn.com],
> >> > >> >>> > [org.apache.webapp.balancer.rules.RequestParameterRule:
> Target
> >> > param
> >> > >> >>> name:
> >> > >> >>> > paramName / Target param value: paramValue / Redirect URL:
> >> > >> >>> > http://www.yahoo.com],
> >> > >> >>> > [org.apache.webapp.balancer.rules.AcceptEverythingRule:
> >> Redirect
> >> > >> URL:
> >> > >> >>> > http://jakarta.apache.org]]
> >> > >> >>> > > Aug 17, 2009 3:40:13 PM
> >> > >> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationContext
> >> > >> >>> log
> >> > >> >>> > > INFO: ContextListener: contextInitialized()
> >> > >> >>> > > Aug 17, 2009 3:40:13 PM
> >> > >> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationContext
> >> > >> >>> log
> >> > >> >>> > > INFO: SessionListener: contextInitialized()
> >> > >> >>> > > Aug 17, 2009 3:40:13 PM
> >> > >> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationContext
> >> > >> >>> log
> >> > >> >>> > > INFO: ContextListener: contextInitialized()
> >> > >> >>> > > Aug 17, 2009 3:40:13 PM
> >> > >> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationContext
> >> > >> >>> log
> >> > >> >>> > > INFO: SessionListener: contextInitialized()
> >> > >> >>> > > Aug 17, 2009 4:25:59 PM
> >> > >> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationContext
> >> > >> >>> log
> >> > >> >>> > > INFO: SessionListener: contextDestroyed()
> >> > >> >>> > > Aug 17, 2009 4:25:59 PM
> >> > >> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationContext
> >> > >> >>> log
> >> > >> >>> > > INFO: ContextListener: contextDestroyed()
> >> > >> >>> > > Aug 17, 2009 4:25:59 PM
> >> > >> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationContext
> >> > >> >>> log
> >> > >> >>> > > INFO: SessionListener: contextDestroyed()
> >> > >> >>> > > Aug 17, 2009 4:25:59 PM
> >> > >> org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationContext
> >> > >> >>> log
> >> > >> >>> > > INFO: ContextListener: contextDestroyed()
> >> > >> >>> > >
> >> > >> >>> > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > >> >>> > >> From: Les Hazlewood [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> > >> >>> > >> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:24 PM
> >> > >> >>> > >> To: [email protected]
> >> > >> >>> > >> Subject: Re: need more help with SSO
> >> > >> >>> > >>
> >> > >> >>> > >> Hi Andy,
> >> > >> >>> > >>
> >> > >> >>> > >> It goes in the main section, definitely.  Is there any
> more
> >> to
> >> > >> the
> >> > >> >>> > >> exception?  I'd like to see the entire stack trace if
> >> > possible.
> >> > >> >>> > >>
> >> > >> >>> > >> - Les
> >> > >> >>> > >>
> >> > >> >>> > >> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Andy
> >> > >> Tripp<[email protected]>
> >> > >> >>> > >> wrote:
> >> > >> >>> > >> > I created my own Cache and CacheManager:
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
> >> > >> >>> > >> > public class VonageDistributedSessionCache implements
> >> Cache
> >> > {
> >> > >> >>> > >> >    public VonageDistributedSessionCache(String name) {
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
>  System.err.println("VonageDistributedSessionCache
> >> > >> >>> > >> > constructor.");
> >> > >> >>> > >> >    }
> >> > >> >>> > >> >    ...
> >> > >> >>> > >> > }
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
> >> > >> >>> > >> > public class VonageDistributedSessionCacheManager
> >> implements
> >> > >> >>> > >> > CacheManager {
> >> > >> >>> > >> >    public Cache getCache(String name) throws
> >> CacheException
> >> > {
> >> > >> >>> > >> >        return new VonageDistributedSessionCache(name);
> >> > >> >>> > >> >    }
> >> > >> >>> > >> > }
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
> >> > >> >>> > >> > Then in [main] section of my ShiroFilter in web.xml, I
> >> have:
> >> > >> >>> > >> >   [main]
> >> > >> >>> > >> >   realmA =
> >> com.vonage.auth.client.VonageAuthenticationRealm
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
> >> > >> >>> > >> >   securityManager.sessionMode = native
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
> >> > >> >>> > >> > And when I add this:
> >> > >> >>> > >> >  # pull in vonage centralized authentication:
> >> > >> >>> > >> >  cacheManager =
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
> >> com.vonage.auth.client.VonageDistributedSessionCacheManager
> >> > >> >>> > >> >  sessionDAO =
> >> > org.apache.shiro.session.mgt.eis.MemorySessionDAO
> >> > >> >>> > >> >  sessionDAO.cacheManager = $cacheManager
> >> > >> >>> > >> >  securityManager.sessionDAO = $sessionDAO
> >> > >> >>> > >> >  securityManager.cacheManager = $cacheManager
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
> >> > >> >>> > >> > ...I get this error:
> >> > >> >>> > >> > javax.servlet.ServletException: Unable to load from
> text
> >> > >> >>> > configuration.
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
> >> > >> >>> > >> > So...does this injection go here in the [main] section
> of
> >> > >> >>> > ShiroFilter,
> >> > >> >>> > >> > or somewhere else?
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
> >> > >> >>> > >> > Thanks,
> >> > >> >>> > >> > Andy
> >> > >> >>> > >> >
> >> > >> >>> > >
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >
> >> > >
> >

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