RE: ShopTalk: Speaking of cheapos

[tom wishon]

TFLAN: By learning the difference between a quality made Ti head and one that isn’t and specifically pointing out the differences one by one.  In the process of your telling them specific things about the design and manufacture of a ti driver, they should be able to see that at least YOU possess a knowledge that they might be able the translate into their money being better spent with you than with the other place.  And if they are also a business person that knows profit and demand, you could also state the obvious – if this was so great a head and was really John Daly approved and really had demand, then don’t you think they would be trying to make a lot more than that on a head?    In a post I just made 30 mins ago, I listed some of the differences in a quality made investment cast stainless ironhead.  Even though I have to get back to things here soon, I know I can’t leave you with just the first sentence in the first paragraph as ammunition for your answer.  So let me try to quickly state a few differences in Ti heads today.    Where the foundry cost to the selling company in an investment cast iron is about $1.50 from high to low, in a titanium woodhead it is wow, like $40!  Because the methods of making and the materials that can be used in a ti driver head are quite varied.  First point – Hippo are probably selling at this price because they have a TON in stock and need to liquidate.  But I doubt they are selling for a loss.  Best guess is that they paid $30 for that Ti head, or maybe a little less.  What do you get for a $30 cost Ti driver?  Or better stated what DON’T you get in that type of head?    You don’t get anything higher than a CP3 grade of Titanium in the body parts.  CP  grade is commercially pure titanium which means it is not alloyed with any other element, which means its strength will not be higher than 100,000 psi.  17-4 stainless is 140,000 psi.  Make that head body of the Ti driver at anything over 350cc with a CP 3 grade and a high speed camera at impact will show the top crown of the head flexing like a Bowflex machine when impact happens.  Crown flexing = loss of energy that could have been transferred to the ball.  Crown Flexing times 100’s of hits can = weld line cracking too.    You don’t get a quality grade of titanium for the face either.  No foundry is dumb enough to try to use any CP grade for the face because the low strengths of CP grade won’t allow it to stand up.  So the next cheapest titanium for the face has to be 6-4.  6-4 typically is never higher than 140,000 psi, so you have the same strength as 17-4 stainless.  And you can buy a 17-4 stainless head for a lot less than $39.  6-4 titanium if made into a face height of 50mm+ as it would if the head is a >350cc model will have to be really thick to stand up to normal impact, that is, thicker than what could generate a high COR.  3.3mm thickness would be about what’s necessary for a 50+mm face made from 6-4 Ti, which in turn should make the COR about 0.770 – a bit away from the 0.830.  In terms of how much – COR 770 vs COR 820 would be about 12 yards.    You don’t get high grade welding either.  For sure, the $39 Ti head would have to be a 4-piece construction, because any other construction method would raise the cost a lot more.  If all of the materials and the welding is policed strictly, there is nothing wrong with a 4-piece head.  But good 4-piece heads with good welding and proper Ti alloys for each part cost more to make than what this Hippo head is selling for.  So that means if you have a 4-piece head that allows the company to make some profit at $39, lots of corners had to be cut.  And a big one is the welding.  A 4-piece head has a welding line at every edge you see on the head – all around the face, all around the skirt to crown edge and all around the base of the hosel.   Welding Ti is not easy because the Ti is so reactive to oxygen in the air.  Ever sanded off the paint from a Ti head and see the edges are blue in color as opposed to silver grey?   Blue in the weld means the titanium has oxidized, and thus its strength is far less.  Welding Ti should be performed in an oxygen free atmosphere, and that costs money to do.  Money that adds to the cost of the head.  Again, nothing wrong with the 4-piece construction but only if the right Ti material is used for each part of the head, and only if the welding is performed properly.    You don’t get high grade heat treatment of the titanium either because this costs serious cash to do right.  And doing it right means that the correct heat treatment procedure and time of doing it are carefully monitored, with no two heads touching each other in the oven during the process.  Piling heads on top of heads in wire baskets and shortening the heat treatment time/process are ways to save money to make lower cost Ti drivers.    And finally you have the QC on the head to ensure specs are right for fitting and assembly.  Interesting, you could take a poorly manufactured Ti head and have +/- 0 tolerances on loft and lie and all those specs and it will still be poor in the long run.   OR you could have the best manufactured 4-piece head in the world with poor +/- tolerances and it won’t be any good for the golfer.  So this QC matter is a really big deal on top of the design and manufacturing side of the picture.    So sorry to ramble, but even in my mountain mellow days here, I still get very riled up when I face this situation of companies being desperate to make money in any way that they make cheap stuff and label it as good.    TOM W.   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of tflan Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:00 AM To: ShopTalk Subject: ShopTalk: Speaking of cheapos   Advertisement in today's newpaper from a large sporting goods chain.   "With Coupon Only. Hippo Drivers, 320 and 360 cc. with lightweight graphite shaft. John Daly Approved. $39.95"   Now, how in hell can anyone compete with that?   TFlan