Hi Everyone, thought I should chip in here... as I've helped a number of companies with their patents in terms of structuring them to get granted, their overall IP strategy, and helping them work more efficiently with Australian and US attorneys.
Some thoughts to consider: *1) Patents should be viewed as a tool to protect your company's revenue streams.* If your revenue streams are more dependent upon your relationships, ability to execute, or brand then the answer to the following question should be no: - "If someone had the same or similar technology to us, could they still knock us out of the market?" There's a lot of generic technology out there these days, which is why it's so inexpensive to take a lot of consumer based plays to market. In these cases patents are distraction from executing to get adoption up in what are usually "winner takes most" markets. The one catch here is that you want to be sure that your business couldn't be prevent from doing what its currently doing if someone filed a patent on the same idea. *2) Can your invention be reverse engineered? *If it's not possible to work out what's inside the black box around your invention when product or service is used publicly then you might want to consider keeping it a Trade Secret. Make sure that your employees only have access to it on a need to know basis, and are trained in not revealing information to others, and are under iron-clad non disclosure agreements, and that you keep an internal register of all your secrets. *3) Can people work around your invention? *If people can work around it relatively simply with only a minor loss of functionality / time / utility then is it really worth protecting? *4) Patents should also be viewed as options: you can be lean/frugal and defer costs if you know what you are doing. *Inventors who know what they are doing can self file provisional disclosures at very low costs (couple of $100). This locks in protection and gives the company time to try the idea out in the market to see if it can generate revenue. If ti does then the full costs of engaging an attorney to draft claims can then be incurred. If not the inventors can let the application lapse. Should this happen the idea is in the public domain and no one else can patent it and prevent you from using at a later date. CAVEAT: to self file you need to know what you're doing and if you don't, you should probably fork out the $1,500 - $3,000 required to get an attorney to help you do a proper job *5) Patents are weapons of business. *If your business operates in a litigious area where there are some other players throwing their weight around suing people, get a couple of patents in your back pocket: you don't want to show up to gun fight with a knife! Each patent you have adds about $1m to the cost of a big player coming after you.... provided you've got a well drafted patent AND either the money to protect yourself or a big customer who uses your product /service that would step in on your behalf. One of the reasons VC's like patents is that a big player will often by out the little guy rather than sue them: it distracts management less from the real business, removes a competitor, and brings smart people inside their own company. *6) Patents do cost real money, will you get a benefit from them? *Expect to pay anywhere from $30,000 - $120,000 to get a patent filed and granted depending on complexity, which attorney you use, and how many countries you want protection in. Given this is the case: - Will you generate at least a couple of $100,000 of revenue to justify the cost in both $ and staff attention? - Will having patent make it more likely that you can get serious funding (if you need it)? *7) You need to be big enough to be worth suing *When I was in Motorola there what's of companies who infringed Motorola's patents. Motorola simply didn't bother to go after them as they weren't worth enough to get a big win out of. If your business is going to be a lifestyle business and remain relatively small, chances are that you'll be fine for at least a little while. Should you grow and become big then expect a knock on the door with either a cease and desist and an open hand asking for back royalties. hope this helps, cheers, Roger On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Jason Held <jheld6...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Rich, > > Welcome to the group! > > You can patent just about anything, but that doesn't necessarily > protect you. Example: a very large aerospace company received a > patent for *every* wireless transmission in space, to discourage > development in wireless subsystems. Completely worthless to them, > since you can't protect such a thing. Just a scare tactic, but you > catch the drift. > > What is it really that you're protecting? The software which runs the > website? Web content? Typically when I hear "this thing doesn't > exist yet", it raises a red flag. Recommend you research a bit deeper > on your concept, 'cause chances are you aren't the only one. > Especially from what I've seen of the web world. If nothing else, for > your marketing plan finding the competition is time well spent later > on. > > If it's content you are protecting, consider trademarking as a less > expensive (albeit less useful) IP protection. If it's a special > technology running the website, my recommendation is to use physical, > rather than legal protections. You're spot on when you said that you > don't have the resources to protect your own patent. > > At the end of the day you are faced with a choice: You can spend cash > for a patent to protect IP nobody has seen, or you can spend cash to > grow the business, innovate, and get some customers. Which gives more > street cred to investors? Patent pending or customer income? > > Cheers > Jason > > > > On Mar 23, 11:26 am, Mike Nicholls <search4ge...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Guys > > > > Enikos had a US patent granted last September. It was originally lodged > in > > ~2002. > > > > Not being involved in the first part of it my guess is that we have paid > > $20-30k in fees per patent, I am seeing similar charges for other > > applications that are coming through now. > > > > Check the Small vs Large Entity requirements, cost savings on USPTO are > 50% > > for small entity (Attorneys will still charge you the same) > > > > Realise it will take years and you will be required to effectively learn > a > > new language (I find the language and structure of Patents very precise > and > > difficult to read) > > > > Just be really sure that a. You have an original idea and b. It will > > probably be worth something to someone. > > > > Its not for the faint hearted especially if you are funding it yourself. > If > > you got some of the inspiration from somewhere else, realise this really > > early and move on. > > > > Assuming you got the patent allowed, there are patent attorneys who take > > patents on license or some profit share agreement and then seek to gain > > license fees from companies infringing. (commonly known as patent > > trolls). If they see potential, they will pay you an upfront fee and then > a > > share of the licensing revenue, which could take years to materialise. > > > > There is also a company call Icap Ocean Tomo > http://icapoceantomo.com/who > > run a patent auction platform in the US, where you can sell your patent > in > > their quarterly auctions. If you dig through this site, you will find a > list > > of auctions that they have conducted. There are many <$1m only 20 or so > over > > a $1m. > > > > Mike Nicholls > > > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Matthieu Stone > > <matthieu.st...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hiya, > > > > > No real answer to this. > > > > > Saying patents are worthless is patently wrong (excuse the pun!) > > > > > Saying patents are *always* worth the money is also patently wrong. > > > > > Here is my 2c worth. > > > > > - Get a realistic handle on the costs for the whole process. $5K > seems > > > wildly optimistic & perhaps you could do a little bit more research > to get a > > > realistic budget > > > - Once you lodge your first submission you have timeframes to > execute > > > additional steps and additional costs. If you don't follow through > then your > > > application lapses. > > > - Expect to find lots of similar prior submissions - your idea is > > > probably not that unique, there is a huge amount of stuff out there. > > > - Expect to rework you submission a number of times (continuations) > & > > > expect these to take weeks to think through > > > - Expect the process to take years > > > > > If you don't have the capital, then the answer is you can't afford it. > > > Bummer, but there it is. > > > > > I don't know your business, nor your strategy, but I think it's > reasonable, > > > if your prepared to risk the capital, to start the process off. You can > now > > > tell people that you are "patent pending" which may give you additional > > > credibility & show that you are serious about the business. If you > execute > > > well, you will have the capital to continue the process, if not, then > you've > > > only spent $5K. > > > > > rgds, > > > - matt. > > > > > On 22 March 2010 20:32, Rich <roadtripr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >> Hi, I wanted to get a range of opinions on the subject of patenting. > > > > >> I have a website right now that is under development and soon to be > > >> launched. The particular concept of the website does not exist yet. > > >> It's very simple and based on feedback, it has some great potential. > > > > >> I spoke to a patent lawyer who said he felt pretty comfortable saying > > >> that he could file a patent for the website concept. When I say > > >> concept, I mean what the website does and how it does it. The cost of > > >> filing would be $5000 (inclusive of his fees). > > > > >> My question is...should I bother? > > > > >> My reckoning is that if the web giants came along and wanted to copy > > >> my idea, they could go ahead and do so because I wouldn't have the > > >> money to legally enforce my patent. To be honest, I wouldn't have the > > >> money to enforce it with most people cause I'm using my personal funds > > >> and it's pretty much all gone into the site and marketing etc. So > > >> does that make a patent a waste of time and money? My main reason for > > >> getting it would just be to serve as a deterrent to someone copying my > > >> site. > > > > >> What are your thoughts? > > > > >> On another issue...I'm totally new to this group (the patent lawyer > > >> was the one who put me onto it)....are there people here that are > > >> looking for things to invest in? Like I said, I'm doing all this with > > >> my own cash and would be open to some more funds so I can take it > > >> further quicker... > > > > >> -- > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon > Beach > > >> Australia mailing list. > > > > >> Guidelines on discussion:http://tr.im/ujKF > > > > >> No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself: > http://tr.im/ujMm > > > > >> To post to this group, send email to > > >> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >> silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<silicon-beach-australia%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com><silicon-beach-australi > a%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com <a%252bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>> > > >> For more options, visit this group at > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia+ > > >> unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words > "REMOVE > > >> ME" as the subject. > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon > Beach > > > Australia mailing list. > > > > > Guidelines on discussion:http://tr.im/ujKF > > > > > No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself: > http://tr.im/ujMm > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<silicon-beach-australia%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com><silicon-beach-australi > a%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com <a%252bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>> > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia+ > > > unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words > "REMOVE > > > ME" as the subject. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach > Australia mailing list. > > Guidelines on discussion: http://tr.im/ujKF > > No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself: http://tr.im/ujMm > > To post to this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<silicon-beach-australia%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia+ > unsubscribegooglegroups.com or reply to this email with the words "REMOVE > ME" as the subject. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach Australia mailing list. Guidelines on discussion: http://tr.im/ujKF No lurkers! 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