The original post was about overseas developers moving over to Australia, which has nothing to do with outsourcing your development. So William, the only reason a company would want to bring in someone from abroad is if that person has the skills and experience they can't find locally. Either someone with just a very unique combination of knowledge and work experience, or simply because there's a shortage of talent. In the US, there just aren't enough developers at the moment and many companies are willing to go through the trouble of getting people over from elsewhere. It seems the situation in Australia is much less severe because there are fewer companies and there's less need for developers. If they can find a local developer with the same qualifications there's no reason to go through the trouble of getting a work visa for an overseas developer, helping them move, and waiting for several months until all the papers are done.
As for positioning yourself as a project manager. In my experience and working with several startups, there's no way we'd hire a "project manager" straight from the university. It happens in larger companies where such people can be mentored by more senior managers and can advance with time. But even in such cases, they won't be earning the equivalent of your 6-figure salary when they start; they'll be working for it for at least several years. We allow people to progress from development roles into project management if that's what they want and if they're capable. Speaking of outsourcing, I think the $600/month is quite off, at least here. The $4000-$6000 gross is more accurate. But not all companies can or should do that. It depends on the company culture and the kind of product they're developing. I find that the more technology-oriented a company is, the stronger is the need for the team to work together in one place (ironically, it usually also means it doesn't matter where the team is located). The more they depend on business development and working directly with customers, the more it's important for the company to be located where the customers are (hence most startups from here branch into the US and keep their sales people there), but the development team can be working more remotely. Ivan On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:50 PM, Daniel Barnett <dan...@worketc.com> wrote: > David basically described our development model. Domestic project > management, direct hires overseas. We do not use 3rd party outsourcing > firms.**** > > ** ** > > Our overseas hires are not in the $600/month range. They’re all at expert > level with a minimum 8 yrs, verifiable, commercial, high-end development > experience and range between $4000 - $6000 pcm from China and Eastern > Europe. We hire them on a permanent, long term basis; rather than for > discrete projects. Once we’ve accounted for ancillary costs such as 4 > weeks’ holiday pay, sick leave, superannuation, office space, hangover days > etc each overseas hire is a little under one half the cost of their > domestic equivalent.**** > > ** ** > > After 2 – 3 years of trial and error we have a pretty successful system in > place to recruit, verify and on board overseas developers. A critical part > of this has been dedicated, local, experienced project management. **** > > ** ** > > I believe the opportunity for smart domestic graduates is to focus on > project management (and learn Mandarin). Position yourself as a manager of > developers and not as a developer and you’ll leave university in a position > to earn a 6 figure salary from day 1 (or do a startup and leverage those > management skills to build a lower cost development team and get to launch > faster) **** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > -----------------------------------* > Daniel Barnett* **** > > *CEO* – *WORKetc***** > > http://www.*WORKetc*.com <http://www.worketc.com/>**** > > ** ** > > *From:* silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > [mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *David > Lyon > *Sent:* Monday, 26 December 2011 1:15 AM > *To:* silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [SiliconBeach] Re: What startups are hiring? WAS: > Emmigrating to Silicon Beach**** > > ** ** > > Hi William, > > I wouldn't read too much into it. It would have more to do with labour > costs being unequal between countries more than anything else. > > In southern Europe, it's possible to find programmers who can do > an amazing job and only charge $600 per month. It's much the same > in Vietnam. > > That's not to say that it's equal or better value getting work done > there. That's certainly a case by case comparison. > > Think of it more that software development is international now. > > Australian software businesses should be hiring overseas more, > simply to be as competitive as everybody else. What that usually > will mean, is pulling more clever kids out of universities here to > do the management of those overseas resources. > > So you really should see overseas hiring statements as a positive > thing, rather than as negative. Hopefully it could work in your > favour someday.**** > > On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 9:55 PM, William <dawilster...@gmail.com> wrote:** > ** > > Mind if I ask why you won't be filling those positions in Australia, > I'll be undertaking a computer science degree next year and just > asking out of curiosity. > > Thanks > William. p > > On Dec 21, 12:22 pm, "Daniel Barnett" <dan...@worketc.com> wrote: > > >>@SiliconBeach: What startups are hiring? This type of question is > asked > > > > on HN all the time, anyone fancy kicking one off? > > > > I'm hiring a full time iOS and a full time Android developer in late > January > > to join our dev team of 6. But I doubt I'd fill those positions in > > Australia. > > > > ----------------------------------- > > Daniel Barnett > > CEO – WORKetchttp://www.WORKetc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > > > > [mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan > > Clarke > > Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2011 10:15 AM > > To: silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > > Subject: Re: [SiliconBeach] Emmigrating to Silicon Beach > > > > It's a pity that Portugal doesn't qualify for the Working Holiday Visa. > > With it you can work for 6 months with any employer and then move on to > > another employer. It's valid for 1 year with a second year > > being earned if you are willing to work in a rural environment. That > > was how I cam into the country, I was employed 1 week after getting off > the > > boat, sponsored within 3 months. If you have the skills and experience > then > > you'll get hired. > > > > @Ivan, here is as good a place as any to find a job, chat to startups, > ask > > questions. > > > > @SiliconBeach: What startups are hiring? This type of question is asked > on > > HN all the time, anyone fancy kicking one off? > > > > Jonathan > > > > 2011/12/21 António Alegria <antoniomcaleg...@gmail.com>: > > > To make it short I have extensive experience with (J)Ruby, Java, > Complex > > Event Processing, Esper, Android. > > > > > Domain-wise I'm experienced and passionate about designing and building > > real-time, event-driven Business Activity Monitoring systems, aka > analytics, > > alerting, etc... > > > > > I'm asking these questions because I have already started planning and > > informing myself about the Australian emmigration process and sponsorship > > seems to be the best way, though I have heard it's nearly impossible to > get. > > From what I am hearing around here, it seems it's easier to work in the > USA! > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > AA > > > > > On Dec 20, 2011, at 12:55 PM, David Lyon wrote: > > > > >> Of course it's possible. > > > > >> Best to line up something here first. > > > > >> What are your skills? > > > > >> -- > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon > > >> Beach Australia mailing list. Visthttp://siliconbeachaustralia.org > > >> for more > > > > >> Forum rules > > >> 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. > > >> 2) No jobs postings. You can use > > >>http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs > > > > >> To post to this group, send email to > > >> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >> silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > >> For more options, visit this group at > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon > > > Beach Australia mailing list. Visthttp://siliconbeachaustralia.org > > > for more > > > > > Forum rules > > > 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. > > > 2) No jobs postings. You can usehttp://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach > > Australia mailing list. Visthttp://siliconbeachaustralia.orgfor more > > > > Forum rules > > 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. > > 2) No jobs postings. You can usehttp://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach > Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more > > Forum rules > 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. > 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs > > > To post to this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en**** > > ** ** > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach > Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more > > Forum rules > 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. > 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs > > > To post to this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en**** > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach > Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more > > Forum rules > 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. > 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs > > > To post to this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more Forum rules 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs To post to this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en
