Very true. :-) Silvia. On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Brendan Quinn <bren...@cluefulmedia.com> wrote: > Hi all, just wanted to change the subject line to draw attention to Roger's > reply to Simran's post. It will go down in history as one of the all-time > greats in the Silicon Beach pantheon! > > On 28 August 2012 13:08, Roger Kermode <roger.kerm...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Ok so in principle I agree with Simran's original post on self-marketing, >> I reckon most people have met some one at some point and had this reaction. >> >> With apologies to Pete Davison who loves this term, I'd like to weigh in >> on this thread with an observation about "awesomeness" in lieu of "talking >> up oneself" to get attention. >> >> Every now and then I come across someone who just blows me away. They tend >> to have a some common traits regardless of whether they're from Australia >> the US or wherever. It's got nothing to do with how many exits they'e had, >> their level of education, how their current job or business is going, or how >> much money they've got in the bank and everything about their attitude, >> focus, energy, and the way they treat others. >> >> Typically these folks tend to >> - be really knowledgeable but don't try to "push sell" you on their list >> of achievements >> - are interested in learning / discovering the truth, even if it means >> they have to change their own point of view >> - are present in the conversation with you, they won't check their laptop >> / phone while with you >> - are genuinely interested in understanding you and your needs, they will >> test and confirm that they understand your position a lot >> - will propose / test ideas with you but always leave space to be >> challenged / allow themselves to be wrong >> - will challenge your ideas by asking questions (they won't make you fell >> like you're an idiot, even if you've just said something silly) >> - will generally stop talking if you interrupt them in mid-sentence >> - will generally be helpful provided you are not obnoxious or rude to them >> - will seek to build teams / alignment to achieve large results >> - are very action oriented and results oriented: They Get. Stuff. Done. >> - are passionate about how what they're doing helps others >> - hold themselves and others to high standards of conduct >> - are confident and calm in their own abilities, they don't need to make >> others feel small to pump themselves up >> - they show and don't tell >> - do what they say they're going to do >> >> Talking oneself up often feels unnatural and runs the risk of creating a >> perception of arrogance. There are plenty of people who don't get funded or >> get the sale simply because they're trying too hard and end up leave the >> potential investor / customer thinking "This guy/gal is really super smart >> or accomplished, but sheesh what an A**hole, they won't listen to any >> advice, no way I could work with them: too much work, not enough fun, life's >> too short" There are plenty of VCs who tell you they have passed on deals >> for this reason. >> >> Shifting the focus on how to help others and the discovery of truths with >> high energy and a results-orientation can generate significant interest and >> a deep respect: "This person clearly knows their stuff, and do what it takes >> to achieve a great result.... even if it means they're told they're wrong. I >> could work with this person" >> >> Every time I meet one of these people I am grateful and I seek them out >> going forward. They are a pleasure to be around. They're kind of people I'd >> like as partners and to do business with. There are a reasonable number of >> people on the list whom I'd hold up as examples of the above behaviours, >> hopefully they know who they are as I won't embarrass them by naming them or >> myself for missing someone who is awesome out. >> >> False humility can make you look timid and uncommitted. >> Talking up your own achievements can make you look arrogant and hard to >> work with. >> Being awesome is the way to go :) >> >> cheers, >> >> Roger >> >> >> >> On 28/08/2012, at 7:46 PM, Tom Dawkins wrote: >> >> This is so true. You won't find much of this humility in the US startup >> scene. I had to learn how to talk myself up a little more over there, I >> don't think it comes as naturally to Australians. Much more chilled >> out/humble(ish) here. >> >> Tom >> >> ------------------ >> Sent using large fingers on a small device, apologies for any spelling or >> grammar fails. (Was that last sentence even grammatical?) >> >> On Aug 28, 2012 7:40 PM, "Stephen Young" <stephenmdyo...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Agreed. I'd have thought that humility was a luxury a startup >>> entrepreneur could ill-afford. This is especially so, if you're >>> selling in the US. The average American entrepreneur can make a trip >>> the bathroom sound like it was Homer's Odyssey. Humility won't get >>> you a meeting - let alone a sale. >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Clifford Heath >>> <clifford.he...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > Love your attitude simran and I agree with what you're saying… >>> > in situations where the value of the *ideas alone* will direct the >>> > outcome. However, a lot of geeks mistakenly believe that is >>> > more often the case than it really is. We love ideas that are >>> > right and think that must be everybody's priority too… However, >>> > in many cases, decision making processes are not rational and >>> > are not based on the merit of the ideas being espoused, but on >>> > other factors. >>> > >>> > I spent some years early in my career being less effective than >>> > I might have been simply because I didn't understand that even >>> > good ideas need to be sold - and that also requires selling >>> > yourself. >>> > >>> > Like it or not, you have to learn how to be political as well as >>> > competent. >>> > >>> > Clifford Heath, Data Constellation, http://dataconstellation.com >>> > Agile Information Management and Design >>> > >>> > On 28/08/2012, at 4:34 PM, simran wrote: >>> > >>> >> Indeed... i didn't intend for humility to equal self deprecation, >>> >> however, i think it's important to champion the idea, rather than "the >>> >> self" >>> >> - i equate it to being passionate about something, working at it, with >>> >> say >>> >> money being a "side effect"... if we chase the money as a primary goal, i >>> >> personally think the road is unforgiving... i just found a bit of "i'm an >>> >> expert at this" and "my life now is about contribution [virtually >>> >> implying >>> >> that i had learned everything there is, now i'll do "charity"]" type of >>> >> emails on this list and others.. and those make me cringe :) >>> >> (i think championing an idea will get you noticed without that even >>> >> being your intention, in fact, it specifically can't be your "intention") >>> >> >>> >> personally, i love to see "i really believe in", "i think this idea", >>> >> etc, being the central point... >>> >> >>> >> just some thoughts, i've been known to be wrong before ;) perhaps >>> >> "self" promotion is necessary, i'd like to believe otherwise, and >>> >> hopefully >>> >> will align some of what i'm saying with some of what i do myself :) :) :) >>> >> >>> >> On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Clifford Heath >>> >> <clifford.he...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> Yes. This isn't only true for women either (you go, girl!). >>> >> We each need to have a fair assessment of where you stand >>> >> in the scheme of things (which varies depending on context) >>> >> and judiciously use your elbows to make it clear that you lay >>> >> claim to that level in the pecking order. Having staked a >>> >> claim ("I can do that") you need to be able back it up with >>> >> action, or be rightly thought a jerk. >>> >> >>> >> False humility hurts yourself and also the organisation >>> >> which might not get the best of you, because they will not >>> >> ask you to do what you can do best. >>> >> >>> >> Insufficient humility obviously hurts too - but as I indicated, >>> >> that's contextual. How much you should push for the place >>> >> you deserve depends on the extent to which it will play for >>> >> you vs against you. If you have a lot of demonstrable runs >>> >> on the board, you're more likely to be given the opportunity >>> >> to shine again, and so it grows. >>> >> >>> >> Ultimately, you earn respect not by downplaying your >>> >> abilities, but by stepping up and proving them. >>> >> >>> >> Clifford Heath. >>> >> >>> >> On 28/08/2012, at 4:05 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer wrote: >>> >> >>> >> > I know that if I don't mention what I'm good at and what I do, I get >>> >> > overlooked as "the secretary in the room". That's a bit too humble for >>> >> > me. >>> >> > Sorry, but I'll continue to proclaim to be an expert in blah... That >>> >> > doesn't >>> >> > mean that I proclaim to be *the one and only* expert in blah. But it >>> >> > also >>> >> > means I don't get completely ignored. >>> >> > >>> >> > I guess it's a difficult balance to strike... >>> >> > >>> >> > Cheers, >>> >> > Silvia. >>> >> > (contributing a bit of a different viewpoint maybe) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach > Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more > > Forum rules > 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. > 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs > > > To post to this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.org for more Forum rules 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs To post to this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en
