Bruce / List,
Well, I've sat down several times to reply to this
but haven't made much progress. The wife is having medical
problems and is scheduled for surgery soon. If you notice
from my e-mail address I am in Japan (US Navy) and we have
to travel to near Tokyo for her treatment (and my work!)
and I will be out of touch with the list for about 5 weeks.
But I wanted to leave a few thoughts...sorry for the
shallow treatment, Bruce's posts deserve a more in depth
answer than I can give right now.
On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:30:32 -0600, Bruce K. Stenulson
wrote:
>George Martin wrote:
>>
>> I've always suspected that the color was due to
>> oxidation but have absolutely no evidence that this is the
>> case.
>
>Haven't got this all figured out either, George, but I'll offer a few of
>my thoughts abd observations on the subject:
Around Christmas I was visiting a web site with a box that
said "Click here to win a Digital Camera!". Well, I did
and I won! Coolest (and only) thing I have ever won. So
to celebrate and to illustrate why I think the way I do, I
have posted two photos on my web site at the following url:
http://www.dragonbyte.net/images/fork.jpg
http://www.dragonbyte.net/images/fork2.jpg
>
>The 'selective' reflection of yellow light more than other colors is a
>known characteristic of very small particle size Ag. This in and of
>itself does not tell the whole story, but is a valid observation on it's
>own. [Yellow coler=light reflected off very fine particle size silver.]
>
> I have a set of silverware that I've noticed
>> exhibits the same sort of color change as it oxidizes. If
>> this was the case I would expect to see a greater color
>> change (more rapid oxidation) with the larger particle
>> sizes (greater surface area per particle). One other
>> anecdotal input...if I place a recently cleaned piece in my
>> mouth I don't get the same taste as I get from a heavily
>> tarnished piece. To me the tarnished piece tastes close to
>> the metallic taste I get from the darker colored CS.
>
>The 'Blue Bloods' of...
[snip]
>
>The taste of the tarnished silverware is possible because these oxidized
>particles can separate from the surface and interact with your taste
>buds; the recently cleaned piece does not have free particles to do
>so....
>
>Now if you can tell me the difference in taste between tarnished
>particles (oxidized) and non-tarnished particles, we'll be able to use
>the taste test for more than just detecting separate particles in
>general. I have experimented with placing a silver electrode from my
>Zapper - the positively charged external one- under my tongue and near
>the gum next to a problem tooth; very much a metalic taste quickly.
>(Yes, I know all of the cautions reguarding peroxide generation, etc....
>friend killed out a long standing sinus infection by this same method,
>however, and was happy to live with the trade-offs in the process.)
>
The first thing that occured to me when I read about your
experience with the zapper was that the 'taste' you get may
be similar to the effect when you place a 9 volt battery on
your tounge. I don't think I know how to describe a taste.
All I am saying is that the effect I get from putting the
tarnished fork in my mouth is similar to the effect / after
taste I observe from the golden colored CS that I produce
with my 'battery powered gizmo'. I don't notice a similar
effect from the untarnished silverware or a cleaned silver
electrode. After using the CS I produced
(distilled water, 3 x 9vdc batteries, room temp, 30 minutes
or so) I can notice a distinct 'metallic' aftertaste for an
hour or so.
>> For those of you who may take exception to this
>> just tell me one thing... what is the process that
>> prevents the silver from oxidizing in the presence of the
>> oxygen in the water?
>
>Here is more undefined ground - I'll offer an observation I believe is
>relevant, and a theory for which I as yet do not have complete proof;
>it's not easy to phrase the wording, and I won't try to go into an
>in-depth explaination...
>
>While the generator is running (in a DC system) you will observe that
>the Anode (positive electrode) darkens. Oxidation of the silver Anode
>itself is likely what we are observing in this darkening, as oxygen is
>drawn to / generated at the surface of the strongly positively charged
>silver anode.
>An oxygen atom, when in contact with the positively charged anode, can
>do either of two things;
>
><1> it can combine with other oxygen atoms and be evolved as oxygen gas
>bubbles, which we can observe with the naked eye at higher current flow
>levels;
>
><2> it can combine with an atom of silver in the surface matrix of the
>silver anode, resulting in a non-charges silver oxide particle that will
>stay weakly bonded to the surface of the anode unless otherwise
>'disturbed'; hence, the 'darkening' of the anode, as silver oxide is
>generally greyish-black (reflects no light) rather than yellow, if I
>understand it correctly.
>
>Silver Ions, on the other hand, are by their individual positive charge,
>rapidly repelled from the vicinity of the anode, and drawn towards the
>negatively charged cathode. If they make contact there, they will gain
>an electron and lose their charge, being reduced to metalic silver (the
>greyish 'sludge' you see forming on the surface of the cathode.)
>
>Will silver ions oxidize in the water between the two actively charged
>electrodes? This is the core of the question that I can not definitely
>answer, but I suspect that IF oxygen is to bond to silver atoms while
>the electrodes are charged, it may be far more likely to do so with
>atoms of silver still in the surface of the anode, rather than with free
>ions of silver suspended in the water... Someone else may be able to
>tell us exactly why this might be tha situation.
>
My last chemistry class was over 2 decades ago but I doubt
that very much is being produced in the way of ions with 27
vdc at 10-50 ma. Because of the structure of the electron
shells and a single electron in the outer shell (same with
copper and gold) I think that the energy required would be
quite high (relatively speaking) probably on the order of
600-800 kJ/mol. With the 10-15kvdc units there would
likely be some ion production but I don't know how much.
Using Mr Lee's recent posts it should be fairly easy to
figure out one way or the other.
I do think that if we limited the current to less that 1 ma
for the whole process that there wouldn't be as much (any?)
'sludge' production. After all, what is the hurry? If it
takes 12 hours to produce a batch then so what?
>I'm sure there's more to the story, but I'll stop here. Hope these
>thoughts help.
>
>Bruce K. Stenulson
>Applied Technology
>http://web.idirect.com/~showcase/althealth
>>
I need to stop as well, I'm catching a plane in a couple of
hours. Later!
Regards,
George Martin
--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to:
silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com
with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line.
To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@id.net>
