Thanks and sorry for the incorrect attribution. I have to admit I have been confused more than once by the differing uses of the term colloidal silver. - Steve N
-----Original Message----- From: David O'Neil [mailto:da...@alchemysa.com.au] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 6:43 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CS>Re: silver-colloids.com > Hello Steven Actually it was me not Neville who wrote the quote that you open with below. And perhaps I wasn't clear in my purpose. My question should have been "What method is used to make these products that are at least 50% colloidal?" If they are not MSP then how are they made? Its something I've wondered about for a long time. Incidently, Ron Gibbs conclusions can be viewed in a whole new light when you realise that he didnt actually know what he was studying. At the time of his reseach the techniques used to analyse CS were so underdeveloped that he thought he was examining 'colloidal' silver when in fact he was examining ionic silver. Thats why he makes the rather odd statement that the best CS is 'clear' on a website thats promoting a product that clearly isn't. You'll find this revealed in the FAQ's on silver-colloids website in answer to a question about "Why is mesosilver colored?" The answer is worth reading in full. David. > From: Steven Foss <foss_ste...@yahoo.com> > Date: 18 September 2008 9:58:39 AM > To: silver-list@eskimo.com > Subject: CS>Re: silver-colloids.com > > > Dear Neville, > > You wrote: > > "Looking at the reports on silver-colloids.com it appears that the > products that are classified as 'colloidal' have quite low ionic > silver levels. I assume these are the products most likely to be high > voltage but I could be wrong." > > High Voltage DC or High Voltage AC is not the reason for the > "classified as 'colloidal' have quite low ionic silver levels." It may > have more to do with "high voltage" sales tactics. > > Products classified as Colloidal deal with particle size range and how > the particles are held in this system. > > A Colloid is in essence a type of mechanical mixture where one > substance is dispersed evenly throughout another. It is not a > solution. The particle size is between one nanometer (1/1000 of a > micron) and 1 micron. Fog, Smoke, Red Stained Glass, Milk, and Paint > for example are Colloids. Because of this dispersal, some colloids > have the appearance of solutions. A hydrosol is a colloid with water > as the dispersing medium. > > The website www.silver-colloids.com which appears to be an information > site is in fact owned by a commercial colloidal silver manufacturer > and seller. His retail site links extensively to this website to back > up his claims that EICS is not Colloidal Silver. > > Here is my opinion: > > The main purpose of silver-colloids.com is to slam EICS (Commercially > available EICS) and Colloidal Silver Generators to sell his bottle > colloidal silver product. > > The website makes some provacative statements: > > "If the product is clear, then it is ionic silver, not a true silver > colloid," > > (The late Professor Ronald J. Gibbs, of the Center for Colloidal > Science at the University of Delaware in his book,Silver Colloids, Do > They Work?, wrote, "The highest quality Colloidal Silver is > colorless." If a yellow color is present in the product it is probably > indicating that some other unwanted substance is present causing the > color, or that the particles are too large, either way indicating the > colloidal silver product is not acceptable nor is the highest > quality.) > > and elsewhere on this website: > > "We do not provide advice on making colloidal silver at home. Many > companies sell colloidal silver generators and dozens of web sites > provide information for experimenters and home hobbyists. All the > machines sold for making colloidal silver use an electrolysis process > and make ionic silver. There are no machines sold that are capable of > making true colloidal silver." > > Harvard University Physics department considers Electrically produced > Silver Ions as Colloidal Silver. > > I found this bit of information at the Harvard Physics Website in > connection with a lesson. Although I did not have permission to > access their homepage on the Colloidal Silver Generator (and its > construction), please note below: > > from http://www.physics.harvard.edu/~wilson/arsenic/remediation/ > Silver%20Ceramic/CS.htm > > "The present success of the CS (Colloidal Silver) generator is largely > attributable to the high quality of the new electrical unit, which > converts 240AC to 24DC. What is indicated here is a simple cost > analysis of producing this kind of CS. > > The concentrated CS generator shown on the home page is currently > utilizing two flasks, of 2.4 liters each. However additional flasks > can be wired into the system, up to eight in all. Given that each > flask contains about 500 ppm of CS, this will saturate sixteen > candles. So, 8 flasks x 16 candles per flask = 128 candles, the > daily production of concentrated CS. > > Several people have asked whether the flask size can be increased, so > as to get bigger volumes of CS, and in my view this may be tricky. > For example, if the flask size is doubled then the wet surface area of > electrodes must be increased, quite clearly. And the DC voltage would > also need to be increased. But at what DC voltage would the system > require safety apparatus? While we feel confident that the 24 volts > DC for the generator is perfectly safe, at additional voltage would > tend toward an unsafe system. Would a > 4.8 liter flask require double the voltage, something like 48 volts > DC? And would this require the enclosure of the leads to the circuit, > so as to avoid a shock to the operator? > > Post Script of 23 April: If the producers are purchasing the > concentrated colloidal silver, for saturation of their filters, then > this should be carefully sourced. It may be considered best to know > the form of the silver, resulting within the filter, in case further > studies on these are at some point considered desireable. In general, > however, silver is considered to be among the most benign of > substances, no harmful health effects associated." > > I guess someone should inform the Harvard Physics department they are > not producing "True Colloidal Silver." > > As to www.silver-colloids.com > > I won't go into a line by line analysis of the website's "Reign of > Error." I would be typing for days. (The owner has a background in > engineering and physics at two respect institutions of higher > learning.) > > This individual denies that an Ion is a particle, atomic or otherwise. > He seems to ignore the accepted definitions used world wide in > teaching institutions as defined by the worldwide authority for > Chemistry, Science, and Physics, The International Union of Pure and > Applied Chemistry. > > The IUPAC Compendium of Chemical Terminology (sometimes called the > Gold Book, recognized as the world's standard and final word on such > definitions) does not share this "definition" for the terms "Ion," > "Sol" (as in hydrosol), "Colloids" or "Colloidal." > > The Gold Book is online at: > > http://old.iupac.org/publications/compendium/index.html (if you prefer > to look up the definitions oneself.) > > An Ion by definition is a particle. > > For Ion, you will find the following: > > "ion, An atomic or molecular particle having a net electric charge. > Source:PAC, 1982, 54, 1533 (Glossary of terms used in nuclear > analytical chemistry (Provisional)) on page 1545." > > (This is a direct quote from The IUPAC Compendium of Chemical > Terminology.) > > Compare to: > > http://www.silvercolloids.com/Papers/definitions.html#silver.ion > > (below is an abbreviated quote for space) > > "silver ion (Ag+) - An ion of silver is formed when a single electron > is removed from a silver atom causing the ion to have a positive > charge. While an ion possesses ionic charge owing to the missing > electron, it is not considered an atom of silver with a charge." > > (Huh?) > > "ionic silver - A solution consisting of water and silver ions > (dissolved silver). Contains no silver particles and does not exhibit > a Tyndall Effect." > > > EICS has exhibited Tyndall Effect for all the years I have made and > tested for a Tyndall Effect. I have repeatedly tested on this and > other forms of Colloidal Silver (mild Silver Protein, ect). > > Colloids exhibit Tyndall Effects, Solutions, such as water > (solvent) and salt or sugar (solute) do not. > > On the www.silver-colloids.com: > > "Because colloidal silver is in many ways a very effective health > supplement, it is important to understand what is real and what is > bogus. This site is maintained by XXXX XXXXX who welcomes input and > comments from the scientific community. Mr. XXXX is founder and > principal scientist of the Colloidal Science Laboratory, Inc. where > research on gold, silver and other metal colloids is conducted." > > The above neglected to mention ownership of www.purestcolloids.com > (an online seller of Colloidal Silver, and in addition to the > ownership Colloidal Science Laboratory, Inc. used to verify his > claims). A conflict of Interest? > > This silver-colloids.com owner used to post the silver list back in > 2001, one can draw one's own conclusions as to his motives then and > now. > > This individual posted about EICS was useless and not absorbed, > causes argyria, etc. (Using his hypothesis, I should not be able to > absorb Copper Ions from my food and thus have copper-deficiency > anemia.) > > If you are interested in a "debate" from the old Silver List > archives, this is all that remains online is at: > > http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/silver.html (a commercial site and > competitor to the above) > > (However one should verify these the original posts. I believe this > would require the kindness of Wayne and his personal Silver List > archive. I would be interested in seeing the entire posts, dating > from around Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:28:47, I always compare original > sources to online sites.), > > For a another's view on metal ions transport into the body, see: > > http://www.health2us.com/transport.htm > > Either websites make for interesting reading as to the "the silver > ion issue" listed above. Both seem to refute the allegation that > Silver Ions do not exist inside or are absorbed by the body. > > Again, my apologies for the length, Neville and the list. (My > apologies to Mike D. for the headaches my long posts and email > server causes him) > > Regards, Steve > > PS I found this on Yahoo Education as a sponsored link to, > "Colloidal Silver Facts" > > Laboratory analysis reveals the truth about colloidal silver > products. Here are the facts on silver protein, ionic silver, and > true silver colloids. Don't be fooled by the hype. www.silver- > colloids.com" > > > > > > -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com>
