This message was too big for the message size limit. I'm forwarding it with some edits for size... and tone. (Mary Ann will recognize where that happened, and forgive me, I hope! <sigh>) I thought the account she presents is worth hearing.
----- Original Message ----- From: MaryAnn Helland Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:58 PM Subject: Fw: My last post on the topic Some of the major national chicken processing plants in the US are right here in Western Kentucky as well. My experience may be "miniscule" in your opinion, but we've raised chickens for three different national companies -- Seaboard, Con-Agra and Pilgrim's Pride - - and were part of a network of hundreds of breeders and growers. Due to networking within the local and national contract growers associations, we came in contact with and became friends with many of the people who owned and maintained poultry barns, and have personally been in many of those barns. So my experience, in our part of the country, is actually fairly broad. Debeaking was discontinued many, many years ago. And I've never even heard of searing of the toes -- I can't imagine what would be so worth accomplishing with that procedure, that the processor would make the investment. Your comment that debeaking makes for "messy eaters that contaminate the feed and floor" made me laugh. The *contamination* that you referred to does not come from the front end of a chicken! lol And chickens are extremely indiscriminate, as are most birds, as to where their *contamination* lands. Incidentally, water isn't a concern for *contamination* -- they don't drink out of troughs! Water lines are suspended along the length of the buildings, along which retractable nipples provide fresh, clean water when the bird pecks at the nipple, which is a little bit above beak height. There was a time when suspended water tubes (half-tubes) were used, in addition to the water lines, for several days until the baby chicks learned how to operate the nipples -- but that practice was discontinued many years ago, when it was learned that the chicks learned almost instantly how to do that. I am not conversant on the raising of Cornish game birds, but cannot imagine that they water their birds in any less efficient fashion than the chicken industry. And efficiency is the name of the game. The life-span of the birds is determined by market demand for size. In the chicken industry, the target is a four-pound bird. This produces the size of drumsticks, breasts, etc., that is not only normally selected by the American consumer, but also by national chains like Kentucky Fried Chicken, as their storage, cooking and serving equipment is tailored to that size. Chickens normally reach that size in 5-1/2 weeks. And yes -- during that period of time they mostly eat, drink and poop -- and sleep. That's pretty much what chickens do no matter where they live. I think it's a real stretch to think that they have any kind of *fulfilled* life experience. But our chickens always seemed pretty content. They played, ran, had mock battles -- they were pretty funny to sit and watch. To the uninitiated, the smell inside poultry barns is unpleasant. It was something that I never got used to myself, but the operators of the barns and the service personnel of the processors and the repair people from various equipment companies -- all seem unbothered by it. And in fact, great sums of money are spent on elaborate ventilations systems designed to evacuate stale air and replace with fresh. Because you are exactlly right -- chickens are extremely sensitive to ammonia, and high ammonia levels negatively affect the cost/gain ratio Fact is, birds in high-ammonia level houses do not thrive. Birds in high-ammonia level houses are in the hands of poor management practices. In our part of the country, the processors have a crew of supervisors who visit every single poultry house a couple times a week to check on the progress of each flock. High ammonia levels are discovered very quickly, and remedies arranged for. A grower who repeatedly has these problems finds themselves very quickly with no birds to raise; and with no birds to raise, has no money to pay for a huge mortgage obligation, and therefore either gets in line with quality practices, or sells their operation to someone who will. Oh -- by the way -- the breathing apparatus you referred to? It's primarily to protect the lungs of the people in poultry houses from the dust laden air. By the time chickens reach adult size, there is dust from the floor, dander from the birds, as well as feathers -- all floating freely in the air. This is exacerbated during the winter months, when the cooling systems for the barns are not in operation, but rather heating systems which dry the air as well as warm it, thus encouraging the dusty atmosphere. The water (mist) of the cooling systems helps to keep the dust levels down during warm weather months. Regarding crowded conditions in the houses: on *catch* night (always done at night to prevent panic in the birds), the birds are herded into one corner of the house (this is to facilitate catching). ALL the birds fit into 25% of the building. At that point in time, they are very crowded, but what that makes one realize is how much space those birds usually have, i.e. -- four times what they need, and that is at *catch size*. Prior to that, they are growing into that space. A significant number of the people on this earth probably live in more cramped and limited conditions than chickens in a poultry barn. You are correct that chicks are vaccinated. Their *placement* feed contains an antibiotic. This is for about the first four days of their lives, and then is discontinued. They are not fed antibiotics thereafter, unless a particular problem arises in an individual house, or farm. But this is uncommon, because chicks are placed in houses and for the rest of their lives, do not come into contact with chickens other than their birth flock. The possible cross-contamination of barns is prevented by strict bio-security regulations. An outbreak of disease is the result of a violation of those regulations. You are also correct that the entire industry is profit-driven. What else? How would you induce people to work, or companies to invest, without that? And it's entirely due to that mind-set that every effort is made to provide clean, bright healthy houses for the chickens to grow in -- because that is how they reach their prime body weight in the desired period of time. Anything less is counter-productive. I also had a chuckle at your comment that the chicken's legs are "slammed into the clamps". Nowhere else in your post is it more obvious, the emotional and derogatory slant of your opinion. Come on Malcom -- there's nothing *pretty* about the food-producing industry. You can demonize it, if you want to, but the fact is it's necessary -- most people aren't vegetarians. I don't hold any illusions about the compassion of corporate executives who are far removed from the actuality of it, but every other aspect of the business is handled by ordinary people -- most of whom like animals and do their very best to treat them well. Including the kill-line. A chicken's life is ended in a matter of seconds. It doesn't get any more humane than that. Oh -- one other point -- our "small time operation" produced an average of 400,000 chickens per year. Over the 13 years we were in business, we raised in excess of five million birds. Not too "miniscule". ------- End of forwarded message ------- -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. 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