Hi Garnet, Thanks for the links. The compressor nebs produce aerosols or fogs of coarser droplet size than the ultrasonic. I believe the question of nebulizing soluble meds for a horse entered the discussion before I entered it. I'm focused on human use.
The lit. on the Omron "vibrating mesh" is interesting, and the fact that it delivers all the material, unlike the commoner desktop US types is worthy of note. The technology reminds me of the inkjet, though the principle is somewhat different - the inkjets employ heat to blow (boil) a bubble of ink onto the paper whereas the VMT US still employ a piezoelectric element with tiny holes in a very small mesh screen. Btw, the very tiny holes may be fine for strict medical use under appropriate supervision and the use of pure individual dosage units, but it wouldn't take more than spider-spit to plug one of these screens up; I haven't braced Omron with this question, but I've got so many of the "old" tabletop types around I doubt I'll find incentive for the "advanced" style; in any case, one might look into the limitations on their guarantees. Particle size is somewhat a matter of choice with the vibrating mesh as well as the standard ultrasonic nebs, size being governed by the applied frequency, and for the mesh the aperture size as well. This raises the question of whether the rather wider spread of particle sizes available from the more usual US tabletop units of reasonable power might be of some benefit. For what difference it makes to our discussion, there are nebulizers for industrial and research purposes that employ frequencies of up to 3 to 5 Megahertz, the mesh is not necessary nor desireable for these extremely fine dispersions, and I'd bet not necessary for most mammalian applications. Take care, Malcolm Anyhow, your posts have led me to look into the subject a little, and I appreciate that. On Sun, 2009-10-18 at 14:26 -0500, Garnet wrote: > Here is a table top unit that may be sufficient for a horse: > http://cgi.ebay.com/Table-Desk-top-POWER-NEB-Nebulizer-Compressor-AEROSOL_W0QQitemZ270388545665QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef469c881#ht_1730wt_868 > > > Here is the info on the new hand held that included a phone > number for the supplier who I talked to about the particle > size. He may be able to advise you to match prices with > other eBay offers. > OMRON NE-U22v BATTERY PORTABLE NEBULIZER > http://cgi.ebay.com/OMRON-NE-U22v-BATTERY-PORTABLE-NEBULIZER-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ290354476753QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439a79b6d1#ht_630wt_1167 > Sold By SecureNet Medical, Ltd, Quitman TX ph# 888-255-2509 > > Garnet > > ------------------ > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Very_Low_Dose_Naltrexone > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LDN_Information > > Dr Chris Steele, ITV's This Morning supporting LDN > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpjsDK0LPA > > > Malcolm wrote: > > Hi Garnet, > > Thanks for your reply; I went on ebay and couldn't find an Omron unit, > > though I did see some rather interesting pieces of plastic; basketballs, > > duckies, spaceships (I think), and a few super-expensive (by my > > standards, $250) ones which pre-heated the water and controlled that > > temp Digitally! It used a titanium nitrite(sic) element - I expect it > > was a misprint for titanium nitride, but also expect it is no more > > effective at nebulizing water than the older barium nitride or the > > cheaper magnetostrictive elements common in such units as the KAZ and > > many others, the trick being the frequency at which the water is > > agitated by the element - usually around 42,000 cycles per second by > > whatever does the agitating. I exclude the handheld, "personal" or > > whatever units, in favor of the room-sized ones categorically, since the > > idea is to get a medication or whatever into the animals lungs in a > > reasonable time, and I expect you know better than I that a horse > > breathes a LOT of air. > > > > So, in short: "Let the buyer beware." Meanwhile I'll attempt to check > > further and find the tech literature you refer to, or contact an Omron > > or Swiss-Air dealer. > > > > Take care, > > Malcolm > > > > On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 12:54 -0500, Garnet wrote: > >> What I did was look at the specs on various nebulizers on > >> line and noticed > >> that even between nebulizer units there is a difference in > >> droplet size, the > >> smaller handheld units had larger droplet sizes, although > >> this may not be > >> true now since Omron has come out with a new technology in > >> their > >> hand held unit. > >> > >> The idea of the droplet being too small was mentioned to me by > >> a seller of the new Omron US unit. You can call him and ask him > >> since he would know much more than I do. He sells the new unit > >> on eBay which is where I found his email, he is in Texas. > >> > >> Garnet > >> > >> ------------------ > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Very_Low_Dose_Naltrexone > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LDN_Information > >> > >> Dr Chris Steele, ITV's This Morning supporting LDN > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpjsDK0LPA > >> > >> > >> Malcolm wrote: > >>> Hi Garnet, I'd be interested in knowing how you - or whoever - arrived > >>> at this conclusion, since the ultrasonic element seems to be about the > >>> same in the one (only one) I've seen used for animals and the multitude > >>> I've seen for humans. > >>> > >>> My only point is that someone may have been trying to sell something on > >>> the basis of an advertisement, not facts. Consider what either of these > >>> do; the ultrasonic part is to assure the carrier, water, and content are > >>> not separated by distillation, as in steam, and are effectively > >>> delivered to the alveoli, not trapped in larger passageways as droplets > >>> like the whirly bird (for want of a better description) type humidifiers > >>> make. > >>> > >>> The idea that there could be a size of droplet that would be "too small" > >>> seems suspect, unless the idea was that the medication would be left > >>> behind by being dropped out or evaporated out of the solution being > >>> "nebulized" - which I think means "fogged". And if that were the case, > >>> it would be useless for most of us warm-bloodeds. Most mammal lung > >>> tissue is kinda similar when you are talking about the alveolar level - > >>> has the same job, mainly getting CO2 out of the blood and O2 in; i.e. > >>> packing an enormous area of very thin tissue in intimate contact with > >>> the blood on one side and the atmosphere on the other into a reasonably > >>> compact and protected flexible space. > >>> > >>> Considering the minor cost of a used ultrasonic humidifier and the minor > >>> effort of cleaning and sanitizing it (what else is CS for, after all?) > >>> why not set aside some presumed (dare I say "nebulous"? <g>) theoretical > >>> perfection in the interest of getting the job done; the proof's in the > >>> results, not the ad copy. > >>> > >>> One additional note; how many "nebulizers" does a veterinarian have to > >>> have to treat the numerous mammalian and avian species that come through > >>> the clinic door? Give you a clue? Does me. . . . > >>> > >>> HTH, > >>> Malcolm > >>> > >>> On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 10:01 -0500, Garnet wrote: > >>>> The issue of droplet size is that there is an optimal size > >>>> above or > >>>> below which the medication is not delivered deep into lung > >>>> tissue. > >>>> > >>>> Room humidifiers do not make the same size droplet as a > >>>> nebulizer. > >>>> > >>>> You can research the specs on droplet size or speak to someone > >>>> who sells various nebulizers and knows the specs. > >>>> > >>>> It's been some time ago that I researched this for myself when I > >>>> was looking at purchasing a nebulizer and many on this list > >>>> were discussing adapting room humidifiers. If that is all > >>>> you have > >>>> then it is better than nothing but an ultrasonic humidifier > >>>> is not > >>>> equivalent to an ultrasonic nebulizer. That is my only point. > >>>> > >>>> Garnet > >>>> > >>>> ------------------ > >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Very_Low_Dose_Naltrexone > >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LDN_Information > >>>> > >>>> Dr Chris Steele, ITV's This Morning supporting LDN > >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVpjsDK0LPA > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. > >>>> > >>>> Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org > >>>> > >>>> To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > >>>> > >>>> Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com > >>>> > >>>> The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... > >>>> > >>>> List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > >
