Some comments below. - Steve N
-----Original Message----- From: David AuBuchon [mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:03 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS>Will CS interact with any of these? Hi Steve (and all), Thanks for this info. I read a detailed post you made a while back also about making SC. I'll say that it is more appealing to me to add citric acid to finished EIS (rather than brewing with citric acid) because it provides a limit on the PPM on the silver that I would be afraid to go way to high otherwise. Several questions come to mind: 1. With this method, do you think the particle portion of the EIS will remain unaffected and help prevent against argyria? ** [I do not think that the citric acid will significantly react with silver particles. The citric acid will be a very weak acid solution.] About the pubmed study, here are two quotes about the solubility of silver citrate disassociating into ions: "In concentrated solutions, containing more than 13 g/L of Ag(I) ion, the crystallization was observed." "The maximum concentration of Ag(I) in the solution that can be achieved is estimated at about 23 g/L to 25 g/L if the concentration of citric acid is at least 4 mol/L or higher." (FYI 4 mol/L is about 800grams of citric acid) 2. They say more than 13PPM causes crystals. I hear about much much higher PPM of silver citrate products. Are those products not solutions? Are they just particles just swishing around in the water? **[13gm/liter is 13,000ppm and not 13ppm] 3. I read in old posts by frank key that the net charge in EIS has to be zero and that the cations need to balance the anions. Is this statement pertaining to a certain context that I didn't catch, or is this a general rule? If citric acid is an anion, and it is added, will other anions have to somehow leave the solution to maintain zero net charge? **[I will probably not get this exactly right. This is more in Marshall's and Ode's realm of knowledge. Silver citrate has a solubility of around 185 ppm in water. While in solution, silver ions can disassociate from the citrate and become free ions. At some point the silver will re-associate with the citrate, again becoming silver citrate. This association/disassociation will continue as long as the silver citrate is in solution. Silver citrate is effective for at least 2 reasons. First, silver citrate readily transitions between association and disassociation. Some silver complexes do not and they do not have as high an antimicrobial capability. The second reason that the relatively good solubility of silver citrate provides for more free silver ions to be available.] 4. This article gives me the impression that adding citric acid will just leave the silver as ions and the citric acid as anions. How will this change anything about what happens when it is ingested (getting back to my original task of trying to spike water with CS when there is other stuff in the water already) **[Silver has a higher reactivity with citrate than it has with chloride. This means that the silver citrate will not complex with the chloride in salt or stomach acid as long as there is sufficient citric acid/citrate available. This is why I recommended the conversion to silver citrate - to prevent the silver ions from forming less desirable complexes.] Thanks, ~David > > From: Norton, Steve > > Probably less than you can measure. E.g. 1 liter of 15 ppm CS would contain > 15 mg of silver. Silver citrate contains 3 silver atoms for each citric acid > molecule and the molecular weight of citric acid is approximately twice that > of a silver atom. If you have a perfect complexing you would need roughly 10 > mg of citric acid to convert the 1 liter of 15 ppm CS to silver citrate. 10 > mg is hard to measure. So I would just add a pinch or more of citric acid and > mix. Extra citric acid does no harm. Any old citric acid will do. > > Citric acid has is very antimicrobial. See: > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2590638/ > > http://microbecide.com/index.php?main_page=microbecide > > - Steve N > > -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>
