Hi Roger, I would just like to remind you, and myself, that I don't have all the answers... but will respond to the best of knowledge, limited though it is.
----- Original Message ----- From: <rogalt...@aol.com> > In a message dated 00-04-25 01:33:15 EDT, you write: > > << Roger as I understand it, the water molecule is naturally polarised > taking this arrangement [H+] --- [O(2-)] --- [H+], ie having a > negatively charged oxygen head and two positively charged hydrogen > tails (the tails forming a ~105 deg angle). > > Good point Ivan. A batter way to have developed my idea would be to have said > that in the presence of the charged aggregated CS particles, the > polarization of the water molecules is enhanced. > > Silver ions become hydrated and form micelles, ie are surrounded by > water molecules, in this case with their tails pointing out. Is there > any reason to think that this is not what is happening? > This happens with LVDC CS also, which, if well made is every bit as > stable as well made HVAC CS. > > I have NO experience with the kind of LVDC CS that remains stable > indefinitely. There is plenty arround, I myself have numerous samples, including 20L of Aug '98 vintage, which test exactly the same as the day they were made. >As far as silver ions are concerned, I don't believe that > silver ions are present, and even if they were, they would be associated with > the NO3- anion (or perhaps you could name another -- as I said repeatedly on > this forum positive or negative ions DO NOT exist as separate entities, but > are always CLOSELY associated with ions of the opposite charge to preserve > local electrical neutrality) which we already know produces an acidic pH > (salt from a weak base, strong acid rule) ALL BY ITSELF. I disaggree here, it is quite possible to manufacture a silver colloid by precipitating the NO3 from a silver nitrate solution, leaving only the silver ions in solution. The fact that the water molecules surround the charged silver particles creates the local neutrality you mention, at the edge of the water layer. This 'double layer' is one of the defining features of colloidal systems, and is the basis for those structured waters which rely on the addition of small particles (usually silica based) as a 'template'. > There is probably some other reason causing the low pH reading, > perhaps ranging from CO2 inclusion to AgOH production, or possibly > faulty / inappropriate pH measuring equipment. > > The pH measurments for my HVAC CS sample were obtained from 3 separate and > independent sources. In addition, I checked the "silver-list archives" and > found that the HVAC CS acidic pH phenomenon has been talked about repeatedly. > As far as CO2 is concerned, there is NO WAY that the presence of carbonic > acid could account for the low pH. For example, the CO2 typically dissolved > in rainwater could be said to be in equilibrium with the ~380 ppm of CO2 in > air. If you calculate the pH from this assumption you would arrive at a pH of > 5.6 - 5.7. Of course, you could ignore the assumption of equilibrium, in > which case the pH would be even higher. Well, that is getting low and rain water has a deal of other dissolved substances also, whereas distilled water has little of these and does readily absorb CO2 from the atmosphere. CO2 absorption may be a contributing factor, indeed when making pH measurements which are lower than expected this is the first place to look. >As far as AgOH is concerned, you will > have to elaborate on this topic. The HVAC CS I produce is crystal clear. > Where is the insoluble (and as far as I know relatively unstable AgOH) > hiding? It is perfectly possible to have a colloid of an insoluble substance. Silver itself could not be a colloid if it were soluble. AgO and AgOH will swap around depending on the pH of the solution and may have a very small particle size, besides which most insoluble substances are soluble to some degree. > Ivan: You are correct. I have NOT SHOWN that "HVAC CS and > the water it is made in, is different structurally from LVDC CS and > the water it is made in". I have provided a working hypothesis from which > creative experiments should either support or negate my hypothesis. So far, > IMHO anyway, you have done neither. > > Roger Altman Yes that's true enough, although I have tried to show that your theory of polarised water molecules being the cause of a low pH reading to be unlikely. I know that free Ag+ ions exist in my CS because I could not read them with my ISE if it were otherwise, and I would be happy to test your CS for the same, if you foot the bill for postage to New Zealand<g> Regards, Ivan. > > -- > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: > silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com > with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@id.net> >
