Well written message. I enjoyed reading it, despite its length. Good job,
Steve > ** Original Subject: CS>The Medusa Topic(tm) > ** Original Sender: "M. G. Devour" <[email protected]> > ** Original Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:05:34 +0000 > ** Original Message follows... > > The listowner sez... > > Forgive me as I referee for a bit! > > The "Where to find 50 ppm......" thread started out discussing a CS > from a company called Innovative Natural Products. The claims on its > web site were justly criticized for being contradictory and unclear. It > was noted that it's claimed high concentration makes it suspect based > on our past experience with such products. > > Stephen Quinto offered some analysis he had done on this product > already, including TEM. Frank Key also offered to do a suite of tests > on it and publish the results if someone would send him a bottle. > > Then, somehow, someone happened to mention the idea of adding hydrogen > peroxide (H2O2) to CS to create a totally ionic prep. This raised > the... > > (dum dum dum) Medusa Topic(tm) > > .... of ionic vs. particle "CS", which has been debated to death before > on the list, complete with barely restrained personal acrimony. > > Waving a red cape at the partisans of ionic preparations, Marshall > wrote: > > I think most of us have reached the conclusion that colloidal silver > > is more effective than ionic silver for killing pathogens. But I > > wonder about topical application. CS would I believe deposit on the > > skin without any penetration. But silver ions should be able to > > migrate into the tissues. ... Have you [Frank] done any experiments > > to address this at all? > > ....prompting Ivan to reply: > > I think not Marshall. Surely most think that ionic silver is more > > effective in killing pathogens, or at least don't know which is more > > effective. > > Further discussing such possible experiments, Marshall wrote... > > If someone is capable of getting me samples of CS that have > > different sized particles, which fall in a fairly narrow range, I can > > make complete spectrographs from infrared to uv of the absorption. I > > only need a few ml of each to make the tests. > > Frank offered, in response: > > You have a sample of fairly consistent particles of about 1.4 nm in > > the Mesosilver (as shown in the size distribution plot that is > > posted for Mesosilver under the Commercial Product Reports on the > > silver-colloids web site). > > At this point, the topical die was well and fully cast, and we were > destined to descend again into the maelstrom of the... > > (dum dum dum) Medusa Topic(tm)! > > Stephen Quinto, rising to the challenge, replied: > > Your post ... is somewhat disingenuous, since this Mesosilver is now > > a commercial product made by you. What's more I quote ... "The lab > > is equipped to perform measurements of all the physical properties > > of metal colloidal solutions that pertain to the quality and > > effectiveness of the product." Perhaps you can tell this forum how > > you test for "effectiveness"? > > Which Frank answered thusly (condensed from two messages): > > That is described on the web site also. ... From the standpoint of > > the physical properties ... effectiveness of a colloid is directly > > proportional to the particle surface area per unit volume of > > colloidal solution. ... A calculated particle surface area is now > > presented in the Commercial Product Reports for use as a metric in > > comparing colloids. > > .... arousing Ivan to inquire: > > You sell a health product, do you test for its effectiveness as a > > health product, as you imply in the quoted passage: "The lab is > > equipped to perform measurements of all the physical properties of > > metal colloidal solutions that pertain to the quality and > > effectiveness of the product..."? ... Do you think this CS to be > > more effective health-wise than a CS with high ionic content? Why? > > I am actually interested! > > So, we've watched in amazement as Frank's demonstrated propensity to > state his opinions as FACT has predictably raised the ire of Stephen, > and evoked a tactful challenge from Ivan. We've also quaked in terror, > as Frank's unseemly (*and* openly displayed) link to a <gasp> > commercial product was laid bare! > > Ohhh, the Horror, the Suspense!!! <SCREAM> > > The (dum dum dum) Medusa Topic(tm) strikes again! > > Ahem... > > At this point, let me explain to the gathered multitudes that you all > don't have to worry about the outcome of this particular discussion! If > you're just wondering if CS works and want to learn a bit about how to > make and use it, you can safely ignore the questions being bandied > about by the several participants in this thread... > > The question is whether it is the particulate or ionic (or some other) > component of what we generically refer to as "Colloidal Silver" that > does the job. Ultimately, the answer is of little practical concern to > us, yet, as we already know from experience that even simple, > relatively uncontrolled and uncharacterized preparations have yielded > the kinds of good results we've come to expect. > > So relax, keep learning, and enjoy (or ignore) the show! > > Gentlemen, please allow me a few further comments? > > Frank obviously believes that particles, not ions, are the effective > portion of what we generically refer to as "Colloidal Silver." He has > consequently expended great effort to develop a process to make a > particulate preparation with little ionic content. It has further been > revealed, by Frank himself on his web site, that his efforts have > proceeded to the point of marketing a commercial product. > > Please note, Stephen, that in the context of this thread, Frank didn't > claim superiority for his "Mesosilver" product, but offered it for the > uv/visible spectrophotometer measurements that Marshall was > contemplating, since it may meet Marshall's requirement for a well > characterised preparation with a narrow range of particle size and low > ionic content. > > I would like to mention, further, that Frank contacted me 2-3 weeks > back to let me know that his work had advanced to the point that they > are now marketing a product. He asked for permission to disclose that > fact to the list, so that just such difficulties as Stephen's concern > could be avoided. I said that he could do so, and that I would expect > him to continue to participate here as an individual, on a > non-commercial basis, to which he agreed. > > About that time there were a series of distractions as the list server > decided to bump him from the list several times for no reason, and I > suspect that is part of why he has not gotten around to posting that > disclosure. I'll leave it to Frank to take this opportunity to address > the issue. > > In any case, I would appreciate it if all involved would refrain from > 1) accusing one another of impropriety, and 2) stating opinions as > fact, and 3) taking offense when none is intended. You are faced with > sharing the forum with individuals who are your competitors in > commercial enterprise. They also have personalities to deal with. I > understand that this makes it more difficult for you than for those of > us who do not have a commercial interest to defend. > > Please consider, though, how much you have in common with one another. > None of you would be expending so much effort if it weren't for the > fact that the products you have created help people -- can literally > save lives. > > That *each* of you have a product that works well is not in doubt, at > least for me. For the purposes of this forum, then, which is *best* is > less important than that each is *good* or even *excellent.* > > I hope that we can enjoy discussions among you that will advance the > art for all of us. It is a given that there are too many things that we > don't *know* about "CS" yet, even though you gentlebeings have each > done more than your share in unearthing the truth. Let's be good sports > and give each other enough slack to keep the discussion positive and to > remain, if possible, friends. > > I propose that we proceed to consider Ivan's questions and leave > the divisive aspects aside: > > Do you think this CS to be more effective health-wise than a CS with > > high ionic content? Why? I am actually interested! > > So am I. > > Be well, > > Mike Devour > silver-list owner > > [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] > [[email protected] ] > [Speaking only for myself... ] > > > -- > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: > [email protected] -or- [email protected] > with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. > > To post, address your message to: [email protected] > Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> >** --------- End Original Message ----------- ** >
