Please let the producer of Mesosilver respond: > Far be it for me to jump to support Mesosilver, as I don't agree with their marketing > strategy that includes bending and twisting the truth.
Would you please tell what truth you think we have bent? > You'll note that Frances clearly states that one silver atom has a radius of 0.144 > nanometers, and that a silver ion has a radius of about .28 nanometers. I never made that statement. What I said was that a silver atom has an atomic radius of 0.144 nm which is a diameter of 0.288 nm. An ion has a smaller atomic radius because it has one less electron. > He now states that Mesosilver has particles measuring .65 nanometers in diameter, > although previoiusly he claimed Mesosilver had particles measuring 1.4 nanometers. > At any rate, either measurement is not a claim that the particles are smaller than ions, > as this is not physically possible ( to my knowledge, anyway ). To set the record straight: We used a Malvern Zetasizer to determine that Mesosilver particles are 1.4 nm. The Zetasizer was spec’d to be able to measure down to 1.0 nm. The latest Malvern instrument is the High Performance Particle Sizer (HPPS) which can measure down to 0.6 nm. Using the HPPS we measured Mesosilver particles at 0.65 nm. The newer equipment is able to measure smaller particles. > I prefer a highly ionic solution over a highly particulate one because the direct action > of silver ions against pathogens and with human cells has been scientifically and > conclusively demonstrated. The silver particles have less "killing power", although > they are more stable. The so called scientific testing done in Petri dishes are scientifically flawed. Petri dish testing is only valid to the extent that the Petri dish environment simulates the real world environment. None of the Petri dish tests contained a chloride environment as would be found in the real world inside the human body. Chloride is the single most prevalent anion in the human body. In human blood serum the chloride concentration is 3300- 3900 ppm. Silver ions will combine with chloride ions to form an insoluble salt, silver chloride. Silver ions cannot persist for more that a few seconds before they form silver chloride. If ionic silver were able to exist in the bloodstream it would seem that one would be able to ingest ionic silver, draw a blood sample and measure the ionic silver concentration found in the blood using an Ion Selective Electrode (ISE). So why do all such measurements come up zero? We challenge anyone to find ionic silver in the blood after ingesting ionic silver. > Frances Key cannot be correct in all of his claims… Can you be specific about what you take issue with? > I don't buy the fact that ionic silver is ineffective in the body, because it is contrary to > my personal experience. 10% of the silver content is in the form of particles which survive in the bloodstream to kill pathogens. For those who missed it, here is more information on ionic silver: http://www.purestcolloids.com/ionic.htm For those who think ionic silver solutions should be called "colloidal silver": http://www.purestcolloids.com/notcs.htm For future reference, my name is not spelled Frances. Francis(Frank) Key PurestColloids.com Andy: Far be it for me to jump to support Mesosilver, as I don't agree with their marketing strategy that includes bending and twisting the truth. However, Brooks Bradley, in the not-too-distant past, commented that their group evaluated quite a few colloidal silvers, and found the two best brands to be Natural Immunogenics & Mesosilver. Kind of ironic, all things considered. He further commented that they could not tell the difference between the effectiveness of the two. Brooks was not clear if their testing was against conditions that required that the silver be adsorbed through the stomach or not, although I would certainly be interested in knowing. I don't remember Frances ever making the claim that an ion is larger than a particle, al contrar: http://www.silvermedicine.org/attributesofsilverparticlesandsolutions.html You'll note that Frances clearly states that one silver atom has a radius of 0.144 nanometers, and that a silver ion has a radius of about .28 nanometers. He now states that Mesosilver has particles measuring .65 nanometers in diameter, although previoiusly he claimed Mesosilver had particles measuring 1.4 nanometers. At any rate, either measurement is not a claim that the particles are smaller than ions, as this is not physically possible ( to my knowledge, anyway ). Frances Key cannot be correct in all of his claims, just as the ionic supporters, when it comes to silver particles, cannot be correct in all claims. If one was correct over the other, there would be about an 80% difference in effectiveness between the two different classes of products, and this just isn't true. I find silver particles just as fascinating as silver ions. My understanding on the silver colloid is as follows: Clusters of atoms organize to form a net negative charge ( zeta potential ). Apparently, there is something being overlooked, at least in the comparison of effectiveness between silver ions and a silver colloid. I prefer a highly ionic solution over a highly particulate one because the direct action of silver ions against pathogens and with human cells has been scientifically and conclusively demonstrated. The silver particles have less "killing power", although they are more stable. I don't buy the fact that ionic silver is ineffective in the body, because it is contrary to my personal experience. It would be nice to understand why a quality silver colloid and a quality ionic silver are equally effective, if indeed they are. The obvious answer is that they are both isolated silver products. I'm sure if we search hard we could find a complicated one, and this might be revealing. Best regards, Jason ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:51 PM Subject: Re: CS>Anthrax Comment - mesosilver Hi Charles, I guess I get confused by the nomenclature. This is my understanding: Ionic = Single silver atoms with a charge of +1. Particulate = Several silver atoms clumped together with a charge of less than +1. Colloid = Anything that is small enough to stay in solution without falling out of suspension. Including molecules that contain other atoms. Some people claim that smaller is better because there is more surface area exposed and that ions work best. Others claim that ions combine with other atoms and form bad molecules and that silver particles work best. I'm thinking that either way, the exposed surface area is going to combine with something and form a compound. The exposed surface area is what is supposed to kill the pathogens isn't it? Anyhow, unless anyone can explain it better, Mesosilver looks like a bunch of bad marketing for overcooked silver and nothing else. Just a brain fart, Andy From: Charles Sutton Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:34:09 Reads like the stuff I make. 24ppm by PWT and from the list (by now at least a thousand posts) it is part colloid and part ionic. The ionic can penetrate cells, and the colloid kills pathogens and other bugs. Where am I wrong??? -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: [email protected] Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
