Hi Betsy! There's alot more I could add regarding Natural Immunogenics Argentyn 23, particles vs. ions, Mesosilver, etc. but I think at the moment the technical debate has reached a level of saturation, and I'm about 35 emails behind currently ( half-written in my drafts folder! ).
I've been asked by several off-list if I personally felt that it is worth the added expense to purchase lab grade silver, in situations where money IS an issue, but health is more of an issue. Generally speaking, my opinion is that Trem ( Silvergen ) and Ken ( SilverPuppy ) generators, as well as a few other quality retail CS generators, do quite nicely, in nearly every circumstance. Stephen Quinto of Natural Immunogenics has been attacked on list recently because he has been quoted as stating a product dosage of 8 ounces is required, which is an unqualified misquote. Keep in mind that Natural Immunogenics is an ethical company, and therefore pays to have a medical director on staff. Perhaps some may consider this expense profit thrown away, as well as the hundreds of studies privately done, both in-house and in collaboration with a few universities, and with private in-vivo trial runs out of country. I'd like to state that this dosage level is an MD recommended dosage level to help an individual achieve maximum titration with minimum risk. 2 ounces of CS taken each "liver cycle" ie every four hours. Stephen Quinto didn't make this up based on his product, it's what more than one MD has determined, and it is not partial to product type, it's how MD's are used to determining how much of a drug to administer in order to keep an effective therapeutic dose circulating in the system. Silver ions kill pathogens, silver ions are soley responsible for the tissue healing properties that have been documented by science. However, in the end analysis, the chemical understanding of the difference between nano-sized ( picoscalar ) particles is not sufficient. I believe that in order to understand what happens with EIS, we'll need to enter the realm of quantum mechanics. As an example, Marshall recently expounded on the efficacy of H2O2/silver. I once got in very nice friendly "debate" with an entire industry that swears that h2o2 will cause silver to precipitate out of solution. The silver reclamation industry uses H2O2 to remove silver from fluids. After pondering the data that I studied, I concluded that EIS, containing minute particles and ions, must have different properties than a purely ionic solution. It's the only thing that fit all of the facts. Now let's get to Mesosilver. Mesosilver is an interesting product, and it deserves further study. I'm not a Mesosilver expert, and my current opinion is that Frank isn't either. I've been studying true colloids for twelve years. To give Frank credit, they are not easy to study, nor are they easy to understand. It is very easy to think you understand, and miss an entire universe of data. Let me give you an example. An Illite colloid used externally can cure some conditions that, prior to experimentation, were considered uncurable, such as Buruli Ulcerations. However, when microbiologists and chemists did culture time kill studies with an Illite colloid, they found that bacteria proliferated quite nicely in Illite. Therefore, they were left without a direct method of action to explain the documented cures. Colloids are beautiful mysteries. It's my current opinion, based on experience and intuition ( not necessarily scientific proof ), that "particulate" colloids have an action on the liver that is quite different than any other type of substance. Is this tied to the "zeta-potential" or surface charge of the particles? The shape of the particles, the complexity of the charge layers, the tendency for negatively charged substances to self-organize based on environmental variables? More than one PHD has looked at the action of a true colloid, and said: "That is not possible!". I will state the reports that I've received from Mesosilver users are very impressive with liver-based disease, particularly Hepatitis C. However, correlating the information is difficult, if not impossible, as there are so many differences between individuals using various products. I have received two reports of individuals having success with Mesosilver, and not having success with home-generated products. HOWEVER, I was not able to get enough cooperation from the individuals making the reports to form any reasonable conclusions. The reports have been too generalized, and follow up work takes at least a little bit of cooperation! Such as, how often a product was used, method of generation, time use, etc. It's not unusual for measured viral counts to spike temporarily even during effective treatment. So I certainly don't put any time into negativity with Mesosilver, because I have no reason to. Concerning ASAP and other similiar products? I'm just very happy when users contact me and share that they are using an EIS product, even if it is made with nine volt batteries. I get unhappy when receiving an email from someone, such as very recently ( a user of SAFE "colloidal" silver-- how ironic ), who have experienced problems with silver compounds. You are rolling some very interesting dice if you use a silver citrate, silver protein, or silver nitrate product, and these companies can get very creative with their promotional material. In this case, I'm hoping to get cooperation with the medical staff over-seeing a case of true silver poisoning resulting from occasional use of this 55 PPM product made with "silver oxide and an acid". This "true colloid without particles". This particular case is a third case where we have the opportunity to try to correlate silver toxicity with general metal sensitivity. I've probably taken more CS than the above individual this week than they have of their product their entire life. I generally recommend that individuals who can utilize a lab grade product for use with a nebulizer. For such a use, the cost is negligable. Do I follow my own advice? Not usually, but when convenient! Concerning Calcium supplements, I utilize Terramin rather than Coral Calcium. Coral Calcium didn't live up to its name when I tested it. If you have a sensitive body, you'll notice a change when taking Terramin ( another true colloid when hydrated ) within five minutes of taking it, and it has been scientifically proven via NASA research to actually reverse osteoporosis. As a calcium supplement, I'm certain coral calcium "does the job", but then again, so does TUMS. The problem when getting caught up in retail silver products? You may "get caught" in the low dosage ideology, and there VERY well may be conditions where a little of ANY type of silver is not effective, where extremely large doses are. In the reports that I've received, when people are VERY sick with advance-stage illness, it's amazing how each of them tell me about the large quantities of silver they took. Amazing how some of these people engage and claim the responsibility for their own recovery and wellness, make a decision, and then commit to the best of their ability. I've never personally gotten a report that stated that an individual was truly on "death's doorstep", and then took a few tablespoonfuls of CS and recovered. I have gotten reports from such people ( on death's doorstep meaning organ failure,etc. ) who drank copious amounts of CS in such situations and are alive today. There are experimental emergency "CS" protocols that I usually don't talk about, with pathogenic-based illnesses, because people's ideas of "I'm dying" are quite varied, and it would be very easy to get thrown into jail based on such "advice". All other variables equal, which needs to be determined by a critical care staff, you switch to a TPN diet ( IV ), stop eating and drinking, and flood the body with CS, via the oral route and nebulizer. If you're really brave, you spike the TPN bag with about 5 ml. of laboratory grade silver. If you suggest this to someone else, or actually DO this for someone else, you've got a good chance of ending up behind bars, and one just may deserve such a fate. If you use a non-laboratory grade product "in-vein", you can just as easily kill. The above is truly for those brave individuals who are used to being survivors beyond all odds, and I don't suggest anyone recommend it. More than one person has been killed by injecting silver into the blood, thinking they know what they are doing. I would never do the above for another individual, but I would for myself. In my book, that's taking too much responsibility for the life of another human being. As an example, I recently talked with an old associate of the founder of a company known to sell an "internet" popular silver citrate product, who informed me that he thought he was being very sophisticated by ozonating CS in a container made with some type of rubber-based seal, and then injecting it into a human lab rat who was simply a sick individual seeking help. The individual never got up off of the table. Kind Regards, Jason ----- Original Message ----- From: "Betsy Coffey" <latimergi...@yahoo.com> To: <silver-list@eskimo.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:48 PM Subject: CS>thanks for the answers-gout and calcium > Thanks to the person who answered my question about > silver. I would still like some opinions on > argentyn,ASAP and mesosilver if anyone know anything. > To the person who was afflicted with gout when using > calcium supplements, I was wondering what type of > calcium was used and also wondered if magnesium and > vitamin D were used concurrently with it.If not, the > calcium gets thrown off into depostits in the body. > Interesting though if this did not happen with coral > calcium.Maybe it has naturally occuring substances > that help the calcium get to where it should. > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ > > > -- > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. > > Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com > OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com> > >
