Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Quoting Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Gudrun: I am an artist who is interested in science, in utopia and seemi
ngly
impossible
projects. I also came across a lot of artists with OC traits. ...
The OCAP, actually the obsessive compulsive 'arctificial' project ..
These new OCA entities ... are afraid, and bound to rituals and unwant
ed thoughts (and actions).
Some odd thoughts:
I'd wondered whether you might be interested in the reality rather than
the
science-fiction - of the connection between OCD and real scientists and
technologists. Ben's article arguably raises interesting questions about
their psychology generally and not just that of Extropians, (and has the
elements, if not the story, for a good movie).
I think there is a connection (and I| am not a scientist, as you
know) between
OCD and art(ists), too. Would be interesting studying this in more detail
.
Because I am an artist, I somehow utilise the reality and science fiction o
f
OCD. I am going to this talk at the ICA London about OCD in some weeks
time and
intend to talk to some of the experts there.
(BTW after his highlighting of one Extropian sucide, up comes an article
on
two suicides closer to AI home - those of Singh & McKinstry (both
Minsky-related!):
There are many suicides in the art world, too
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/16-02/ff_aimystery?currentP
age=all
with a note that: "MIT has attracted headlines for its high suicide rate
in
the past," )
The connection between the scientific, systemising personality and autis
m -
the ultimate in an obsessive need to control and also in a rejection of
humanity - has obviously been expounded by Sacha Baron-Cohen :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4661402.stm
G : I have met Sacha Baron-Cohen, who is really interesting, and I agree
with what he has to say about this.
There seems to be a certain detachment in some people (artists and scientis
ts
alike), many male, in rationalising and re-inventing the world, in utilisin
g
everything . I am very much interested in this obsessive need for
control. I am not sure if this is rejection of humanity. It is fear of losi
ng
control of oneself that might create this need of controlling the environme
nt.
I have studied some literature by Talis, de Silva and Rachman.
I give you a taster from my Mphil work, a short statement about Obsessive
Compulsive 'Arctificial' Life (that certainly could be applied to OC
personalities)
Quote from Gudrun Bielz: The OCAL, excerpt of thesis, copy-right 2006, Lond
on
"1.3.11 Paradox: In and out of the control rollercoaster
An obsession is an unwanted, intrusive, recurrent, and persistent thought,
image, or impulse. (
) An obsession is a passive experience: it happens t
o the
person. (de Silva, Rachman 3).
Who wants to be out of control, who wants to have its circuit blown? My
circuit blows. Is this an obsessional thought? I blow my circuit.
Is this a
compulsive action? I have to kill my creators is definitely obsessio
nal
thinking. This is OUT OF CONTROL.
A compulsion is a repetitive and seemingly purposeful behaviour that is
performed according to certain rules or in a stereotyped fashion. The
behaviour
is not an end in itself, but is usually intended to prevent some event or
situation. (de Silva, Rachman 3).
I wash my hands again and again, I rub them until my electronic or biolo
gical
system is uncovered, I wash them because I DO NOT want to be contaminated.
This is as sign of being IN CONTROL.
An OCAL unit that washes its brain out of fear of contamination by th
e human
virus is IN CONTROL, because genetically modified OCAL perceives humans as
dangerous viruses. Humans are dangerous viruses is OUT OF CONTR
OL.
It is an
obsessional thought. "
GB c 2006, London, UK
And you don't say, but aren't artists - whatever their philosophical
position - fundamentally opposed to science's current worldview? Science
still sees human beings as automata in an automatic process - fundamenta
lly
totally controlled, - (and v. few AI-ers disagree) - while the arts se
e
us, in the shape of a million or so dramatic works, as heroes in a heroi
c
drama - fundamentally unpredictable and suspenseful. (Even robots in th
e
arts tend to be more or less heroic).
I do not think that there has to be this opposition. I fear there is some
opposition to a certain reductionist world view by some scientists. I am
actually more interested in physics and ideas like nano or attoworld, quant
um
mechanics (I am an amateur) and interconnectivity of systems.
The idea of automaton does not appeal to me, in the sense of a controlled a
nd
controllable entity.
I like your projection of the arts seeing us as heroes in a heroic drama. I
t
could actually be quite an anti-heroe or even very banal event.
Unpredictability is a very interesting point. Every AI-er should be interes
ted
in the aspect of unpredictability and out of control (not necessarily
lunatics)
of any form of proposed or artificially generated life.
I think the idea that we are machines might actually be a limitation of
what we
are and a limitation for generating future life.
Best,
Gudrun
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