Hi, 

>In my opinion, content-type is not good enough. What would 
>one do if it is Multipart-Mixed?
>We are talking about something general, right? What if the 
>same content type is to be used for 2 different info usages?

The application you're currently using should know what to do with it.

>Christer asked if there are real life problems with using 
>INFO for DTMF, I think it's one of the problems today with 
>INFO in general. I'm sure it can be solved (e.g., the old 
>draft Dean sent), but it still requires change in the spec.

What real-life problems are there with using INFO for DTMF?

Regards,

Christer










> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Diego B [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:46 PM
> > To: Gilad Shaham
> > Cc: Christer Holmberg (JO/LMF); [email protected]; Rafferty, 
> James; Steve 
> > Langstaff
> > Subject: Re: [Sip] INFO message belongs only to INVITE dialog usage?
> > 
> > Inline
> > 
> > Gilad Shaham wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Here is another major problem with INFO - there is no header that
> states
> > > the purpose of INFO.
> > >
> > If the conte-type is correct, the payload is a DTMF digit. No needs
> for
> > a special header.
> > > The event header in subscriptions helps identify an event package.
> > > Therefore an implementation can easily detect if this 
> event package
> is
> > > supported or not.
> > You can state in the Accept header that you support the content-type
> for
> > the DTMF paylod ( application/dtmf or application/dtmf-relay )
> > > With INFO it is much harder to detect the purpose of this INFO 
> > > message. Currently AFAIK the content-type in INFO
> implicitly
> > > denotes this.
> > >
> > >
> > So, why is harder ?
> > > If you are aiming towards a solution that keeps INFO for more
> usages, I
> > > would say that we need to resolve this issue first.
> > >
> > >
> > I do not see any issue here
> > > I also think it would be a burden on implementors to do both KPML
> and
> > > INFO. Wouldn't it be easier for the implementors that did INFO to
> switch
> > > to KPML instead of the entire industry doing both?
> > >
> > >
> > INFO is very easy to implement. So I dont't see any problem to keep
> the
> > INFO implementation
> > until KPML is adopted. Or maybe keep both.
> > > Gilad
> > >
> > >
> > Diego B
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Christer Holmberg (JO/LMF)
> > >>
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:56 PM
> > >> To: Gilad Shaham; Rafferty, James; Steve Langstaff; Spencer
> Dawkins;
> > >> Robert Sparks; Jonathan Rosenberg
> > >> Cc: [email protected]
> > >> Subject: RE: [Sip] INFO message belongs only to INVITE dialog
> usage?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>> Are we aware of real-life problems with using INFO for DTMF (or
> > >>>>
> > >> whatever
> > >>
> > >>>> else it's used for)? People have been doing it for a 
> while (if we
> > >>>>
> > >> wanted
> > >>
> > >>>> to restrict something, it should have been done years ago...),
> it's
> > >>>> fairly simple to implement - and it seems to work.
> > >>>>
> > >>> Do we need DTMF via INFO for some kind of functionality KPML (or
> RFC
> > >>> 2833) does not provide? I'm not aware of such a case.
> > >>>
> > >> Regarding 2833, I guess the main idea of sending DTMFs 
> out-of-band
> (no
> > >> matter if you use INFO or something else) is when you 
> send them to
> an
> > >> entity which does not have media access.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> One description of a problem with INFO can be found in this
> > >>>
> > > historical
> > >
> > >>> chat:
> > >>>
> http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sipping/current/msg04455.html
> > >>>
> > >>> The explanation from the expired draft is as follows:
> > >>>
> > >>> Under this proposal, a User Agent MUST NOT send 
> signaled digits or 
> > >>> telephone-events using the INFO method if the event was ever 
> > >>> represented as a tone (as media). Only signals 
> originated as pure 
> > >>> signaling MAY generate an INFO method.
> > >>> Failure to heed this requirement will result in 
> double-detection 
> > >>> of digits/events.
> > >>>
> > >>> If INFO is used incorrectly by a pair of PSTN gateways (for 
> > >>> example), the source gateway may detect a digit, send an INFO 
> > >>> request which is lost, and retransmit that request. The target 
> > >>> gateway would send the original in-band tone to the 
> PSTN when the 
> > >>> audio media arrives, later when the INFO arrives, the target 
> > >>> gateway would render the same tone again.
> > >>> It is quite likely that the INFO will arrive after the 
> media tone 
> > >>> has been played (especially if multiple intermediaries are 
> > >>> involved); the same digit would be played out again and 
> this will 
> > >>> frequently cause systems in the PSTN to detect the same digit 
> > >>> signaled twice.
> > >>>
> > >> You can always mess up if you use things incorrectly. I 
> don't think
> > >>
> > > that
> > >
> > >> is INFO specific.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Christer
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> The only problem is that much of the INFO usages are 
> not defined
> > >>>>
> > > in
> > >
> > >>>> RFCs, but that's not always the fault of the implementors...
> > >>>>
> > >>> I think the implementors knew this was not standard or 
> at most in 
> > >>> very early draft mode when they implemented it.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Regards,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Christer
> > >>>>
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sip mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip
> > > This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol Use 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for questions on current sip Use 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for new developments on the application of sip
> > >
> 


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