Jonathan,
I honestly think that not having the call flows, which are BCPs, leaves
a huge gap in the document. And, I think not having them is contrary to
these statements in the hitchiker's guide (from the intro):
"It is an informational document, meant to guide newcomers,
implementors and deployers to the SIP suite of specifications."
And (in the paragraph following the text you extracted):
"Best Current Practices are included when they normatively define
mechanisms for
accomplishing a task."
IMHO, that is the case with all the call flow BCPs, per the basic
definition of BCP in RFC 2026:
A BCP document is subject to the same basic set of procedures as
standards track documents and thus is a vehicle by which the IETF
community can define and ratify the community's best current thinking
on a statement of principle or on what is believed to be the best way
to perform some operations or IETF process function.
At a minimum, basic call flows fits into this category because the ones
in RFC 3261 are not comprehensive.
If we don't tell newcomers about the call flows in this document, they
will likely miss them, since the whole point of this document is to help
them navigate the specs. It would be okay of the call flows were
referenced in the other documents, since more astute developers would
have the sense to look at referenced docs, as well, many of them are not
referenced. For example, the only document that seems to reference basic
call flows is RFC 4083 (3GPP requirements). If the reluctance to
include the call flow BCPs is a concern that they no longer reflect
"Best" current practices, then we need to start updating those documents
or we need to obsolete them.
I also just noticed that one BCP that wasn't mentioned yet was RFC 4579.
It would be difficult to figure out how to put together a SIP based
conferencing implementation based only on the other docs in section 8
(conferencing) without the call flow document.
Regards,
Mary.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:21 AM
To: Peter Saint-Andre
Cc: sip; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stucker, Brian (RICH1:AR00)
Subject: Re: [Sip] RAI-ART Review Comments for
draft-ietf-sip-hitchhikers-guide
The call flow documents do not meet the current criteria defined by
hitchhikers for inclusion. That criteria is:
It is very difficult to enumerate the set of SIP specifications.
This is because there are many protocols that are intimately related
to SIP and used by nearly all SIP implementations, but are not
formally SIP extensions. As such, this document formally defines a
"SIP specification" as:
o Any specification that defines an extension to SIP itself, where
an extension is a mechanism that changes or updates in some way a
behavior specified in RFC 3261
o Any specification that defines an extension to SDP whose primary
purpose is to support SIP
o Any specification that defines a MIME object whose primary
purpose
is to support SIP
Example call flows do not meet this criteria.
-Jonathan R.
Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> Brian Stucker wrote:
>
> <snip/>
>
> Sorry to hijack this thread, but I'd like to second a comment that
> Mary Barnes made during the WGLC:
>
> http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sip/current/msg20981.html
>
> ***
>
> It seems that all the call flow BCPs are missing and I do think those
> are really important and should be included in this document. The
> only BCP (type (B) document) listed in this document is 3PCC. The
> basic call flow document (RFC 3665) should be listed in section 3
> (Core SIP). The PSTN call flows (RFC 3666, BCP 76) should be in PSTN
> Interworking section 4. The SIPPING NAT scenarios document should be
> in the NAT section 6. These docs are all icing on the cake IMHO and
> help to guide implementers in using all the other docs.
>
> ***
>
> I agree that the call flow documents are very useful and that a
> reference to them would be a good thing.
>
> Peter
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 600 Lanidex Plaza
Cisco Fellow Parsippany, NJ 07054-2711
Cisco Systems
[EMAIL PROTECTED] FAX: (973) 952-5050
http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.cisco.com
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