> Yikes. That's not a circus -- that's a abattoir. It's a very careful 
> analysis of why carriers want all of SIP except for the SIP part.
> 
> It looks like it boils down to:
> 
>     4.1.1(a) - Some SIP products are broken by either design or
>     implementation
> 
>     4.1.1(b) - Inter-service provider federation is being rolled out
>     without any of the tools the IETF has defined for that 
> kind of thing
> 
>     4.2 - Service providers won't deploy DNS, despite it 
> being integral
>     to SIP and the Internet at large
> 
>     4.3 - (Mostly a symptom of 4.2) People are deploying security
>     theater without any of the tools the IETF has defined for 
> that kind
>     of thing, and tel: URLs aren't apparently supported, even 
> when E.164
>     is the only useful identifier in use. (If you can change 
> the domain
>     of a URI and still have it mean anything at all, it 
> should have been
>     a tel: URL anyway)
> 
>     4.4 - This isn't a stand-alone issue; it's a symptom of 4.1.1(b)
> 
> In short -- if we ignore the software bugs, it looks like the 
> problems all boil down the service providers choosing to ignore 
> various IETF-defined solutions (mostly as they relate to security).

By IETF-defined security solutions, are you referring to Speermint, 
which is all about SBE and DBEs?  Speermint has not created an RFC
yet.  Hadriel's document explains in detail what he has seen 
in existing, real-world deployments.  I agree the reality is
depressing.  I have thrown up my hands many times, too.

> Why do we think we can come up with a new security mechanism 
> in the IETF and have it make half a whit of difference to 
> organizations who are clearly hostile to IETF-developed 
> security mechanisms?

By developing protocols that meet their needs and work in their
networks -- the same as every protocol that someone will use.  Right
now, 4474 doesn't work.  Right now, service providers are abusing
P-A-I in a way we know will cause harm.  We could sit back and let
them figure out a solution.  Or we could step up and define the
best solution that meets their needs and works in their networks,
and which works best with the academic view of SIP.

There are similarities between the 'Service Providers are 
destroying SIP' argument and the 'NATs are destroying the 
end-to-end Internet' arguments popular in the IETF during the 
1990's.  NATs were (and are) deployed because they met a need.  
The abuse of SIP is being done to meet a need -- it is not being 
done to upset the digerati.

-d

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