Daniel,
I forgot to mention something on the issue of workflow and events. If you have not done so I would suggest looking at the Cocoon implementation of "Flows" and the use of flowscript and continuations. Obviously I don't know what you had in mind specifically, but I do know that there are a number of issues these do address quite well in building web applications.
http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/userdocs/flow/index.html
Not sure if that meshes with your ideas, but it may.
Tim
Daniel Florey wrote:
Finally I think that there are many different preferences regarding templating. It depends on what people are used to use and what they personally like. The primary goal of projector was not to introduce new templating mechanisms, but mainly focusses on the event driven workflow engine. So other templating engines can easily plugged in. For example Projector is already containing an xslt processor that can be used for xml processing. The Projector templates that we are currently dicussing about are targeted towards html designers who want to have a really simple ability to fill dynamic content into dynamic pages. I think it is not easy to use standard jsp templating as I have no clue how to call jsp's in background and cache the rendered result without making an http-call. Is there a way to do so? Would be interesting... Cheers, Daniel
"Slide Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb am 15.11.04 08:39:13:
Tim Frank wrote:
Daniel,
Sorry to jump in the middle of this one, but I find it somewhat amusing that you are having a huge discussion about separation of logic/layout and then throw in an example from the HTML side of things that basically goes back to mixing "logic/layout".
How do you handle HTML style attributes when outputting HTML from programming code? You don't. You class the HTML elements, if necessary, and use CSS to control style. That's it, done. Have your code output
Absolutely. Ultimately all is needed to modify is a class or id attribute.
Agreed.
On the topic of "Yet another template system", I would at least agree theoretically that it would be better to adopt something standard. XSL has always worked great for me and I am experimenting right now with building a frontend for slide with XML/XSL using Cocoon. Cocoon also offers JXTemplates which connect javascript/java code to a template system. I am not familiar with the other ones mentioned, but you have to remember, things start off simple, then somebody wants it to do X, Y, and Z and before you know it, simple is lost.
Agreed. There are things introduced like the dateFormatter that makes it already quite evident that there are dozen of things needed to be introduced later.
I'm already wondering how to do something standard such as (that's pseudo language):
if (messages){
<div id="message">${message}</div>
} else {
<table><td><th>A</th><th>B</th></tr>
if (list.isEmpty()){
<tr colspan="2"><td>No elements in this list</td></tr>
} else {
foreach( item in list){
set (alternate = count%2 == 0 ? "even" : "odd"
<tr class="${alternate}"><td>${item.a}</td><td>${item.b}</td></tr>
}
}
</table>
}
This can be done by using the TableRenderer that has many options how to format lists/arrays. I hope I can add some example to the docs lateron.
Cheers, Daniel
I'm not too keen on xslt because I find it extremely difficult to find people that can jump into it. It takes a long time to learn tips and tricks even from people that are developpers. And it is a major pain to debug.
As for a web designer having to do logic code, no they shouldn't. They should be in the CSS realm for layout. Let the programmer spit out the tags, class them, let the designer style the hell out of it. You inevitably will need display logic no matter what templating system you use.
Well, in theory, your mockup design is done way before you start to make them dynamic, so if you have in your team someone that is not a killer developper but excellent designer, you can still use it to code things above which he should be able to do without too much problem as he also should know some javascript.
Sorry for the long message, but I really hate to see effort wasted on things that already exist and can be adapted.
ditto.
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