G'day all Has this been covered in Australia?
Could this happen in Australia? http://immi.is/?l=en&p=intro David On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 14:37 +1100, slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote: > Send slug mailing list submissions to > slug@slug.org.au > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > slug-requ...@slug.org.au > > You can reach the person managing the list at > slug-ow...@slug.org.au > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of slug digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: SLUG Membership decline (meryl) > 2. Re: Which bank doesn't use Linux servers? (Martin Visser) > 3. Re: SLUG Membership decline (Heracles) > 4. Re: Re: Time Pedantry (Daniel Pittman) > 5. Re: SLUG Membership decline (John Ferlito) > 6. Re: Re: Time Pedantry (Jake Anderson) > 7. Re: Why so snooty? Re: [SLUG] Which bank doesn't use Linux > servers? (Jake Anderson) > 8. Re: SLUG Membership decline (Adrian Chadd) > email message attachment > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > From: meryl <gnu...@aromagardens.com.au> > > To: slug@slug.org.au > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline > > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 12:10:38 +1100 > > > > On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:14:03 +1100 > > jon <jonjer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > > 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online > > > > Yes, I'd become a member if I could do it online or via snail mail. > > > > > 2. Take advantage of the increasing interest in Linux on the desktop > > > by setting up an Applications SIG and/or focussing on applications at > > > some events. ........... So most of the talks and > > > events scheduled by SLUG hold no interest for me. > > > > Here! Here! I totally agree, the majority of list of 2009 presented > > talks appeared to be waaay too techy to entice me to come along and > > SLUGlets talks appear to be too short to offer anything substantial > > to take away & use. I raised this same issue about a year ago (iirc), & > > I mentioned that LUV's plans for Software Freedom Day > > http://softwarefreedomday.org/melb looked like a very appealing program > > of talks and workshops & that I'd be really keen to see something like > > that organised on a regular basis, at SLUG-meets, for us Sydney-siders. > > > > > * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed > > > * Distros compared and evaluated > > > * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, > > > tablets, multiple screens > > > * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple > > > * OpenOffice techniques and macros > > > * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques > > > > In addition to the above, (a very good list Jon!) I'd also like to see > > basic/beginning Python, basic/beginning Rails/Ruby, & troubleshooting > > problems; i.e. using run levels, wireless setup etc... > > > > cheers, > > Meryl > > > email message attachment > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > From: Martin Visser <martinvisse...@gmail.com> > > To: slug@slug.org.au > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Which bank doesn't use Linux servers? > > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 12:17:37 +1100 > > > > I have to agree with Daniel. shutting them down is the safe option. Having a > > service unavailable through the wee hours is far preferable then say having > > to undo a whole of transactions that inadvertantly get run twice (think of > > all the automated payment systems scheduled to run at certain times). A bank > > even has to consider the connections to other financial institutions and > > whether their applications behave properly. > > > > Also you could almost guarantee that while the core transaction processing > > is on a old-fashioned mainfram, the will more than likely have one of > > pretty much every platform doing some part of their business applications. ( > > I actually worked on a project that was going to bring in a new Java on UNIX > > platform a few years ago, unfortunately it was put on ice 6 months in). > > > > Regards, Martin > > > > martinvisse...@gmail.com > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Daniel Pittman <dan...@rimspace.net> wrote: > > > > > Jake Anderson <ya...@vapourforge.com> writes: > > > > Jim Donovan wrote: > > > >> I noticed the following on the Commonwealth netbank site this morning: > > > >> > > > >>> NetBank, Mobile Banking and Telephone Banking will be unavailable > > > between > > > >>> 2am and 5am EST on Sunday 4 April 2010 to allow for the changeover > > > >>> from > > > >>> Australian Eastern Daylight Savings time to Australian Eastern > > > >>> Standard > > > >>> time. Please take this timeframe into consideration when completing > > > your > > > >>> banking. For updates during this change, please visit: > > > >>> www.commbank.com.au/update. Please press NEXT to access NetBank. > > > >> > > > >> Assuming it wasn't an April Fool joke, perhaps it means their databases > > > use > > > >> local time and the logic won't permit transactions to be entered out of > > > >> order such as might appear to be if one happened just before the > > > changeover > > > >> time and another less than an hour later. > > > >> > > > >> How quaint! I remember hearing once that Commonwealth Bank servers were > > > >> always rebooted on Sundays so they'd be less likely to go down during > > > the > > > >> week. > > > > > > > > Odds are its more to do with their internal applications which are > > > probably > > > > written on cobalt running on CP/M machines or something equally modern. > > > > Your probably lucky they even know time zones exist ;->. > > > > > > My money would be on the very boring option, paranoia: > > > > > > If you shut down as many of these systems as possible during the change > > > over, > > > then those systems *can't* go wrong — because they are doing nothing. > > > > > > If you leave them running then, hey, maybe something breaks. > > > > > > So, if you want to look at the cost/benefit analysis the cost of a few > > > hours > > > outage overnight is pretty low, especially if you can schedule it well in > > > advance, and even more so if you can do some other maintenance work at the > > > same time. > > > > > > Meanwhile, no risk of things going wrong during the change-over, which is > > > always a huge PR fiasco even if nothing really bad happens. > > > > > > Daniel > > > > > > If it was my call, I would probably do the same thing. Way too many > > > developers get simple things like "this day has no 2:30AM" or "this day > > > has > > > two 2:00AMs" wrong. > > > -- > > > ✣ Daniel Pittman ✉ dan...@rimspace.net ☎ +61 401 155 > > > 707 > > > ♽ made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons > > > -- > > > SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ > > > Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html > > > > > > email message attachment > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > From: Heracles <herac...@iprimus.com.au> > > To: slug@slug.org.au > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline > > Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 12:19:10 +1100 > > > > Heracles wrote: > > > Alan L Tyree wrote: > > > > > >> On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:38:35 +1100 > > >> Heracles <herac...@iprimus.com.au> wrote: > > >> > > >> <SNIP> > > >> > > >> > > >>> {note to Jon: forget Scribus, it still crashes regularly. I have been > > >>> trying to use the "stable" version to produce a magazine I write for > > >>> another computer club and had to go back to using OOo as Scribus > > >>> crashed almost every time I tried to use the story editor to change > > >>> the text a little. It needs a lot more development to be usable.} > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> What version of Scribus are you using? I have used it a fair amount, > > >> but always the ScribusNG package. I have never had any problem with it > > >> at all. First on Debian Lenny, recently on Debian Squeeze. A quick look > > >> at the Ubuntu forums didn't turn up any recent complaints about crashes. > > >> > > >> Also, the Scribus website has just announced a bug-fix version 1.3.6. > > >> > > >> Since LyX/LaTeX have usually been sufficient for my publishing > > >> needs, I have never been a heavy user of it, so maybe I just haven't hit > > >> the wall. Still, seems surprising to me since I have had very good > > >> results when I have used it. > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> Alan > > >> > > >> > > > Hi Alan, > > > Version is 1.3.3.14(Stable) > > > I'll upgrade to 1.3.6 and see if that helps. My magazine is 24 pages, so > > > it should not be a problem for even a simple DTP. > > > Thanks > > > Heracles > > > > > Just finished the download. I'll see how it goes. Funny thing happened, > > I was able to run two instances of Synaptic both downloading different > > programs in different windows simultaneously. It usually won't allow this. > > > > Heracles > > > email message attachment > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > From: Daniel Pittman <dan...@rimspace.net> > > Reply-to: slug@slug.org.au > > To: slug@slug.org.au > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Re: Time Pedantry > > Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 12:21:58 +1100 > > > > Rick Welykochy <r...@praxis.com.au> writes: > > > Nick Andrew wrote: > > > > > >> Indeed. The Earth's rotational period does vary slightly (effect of > > >> earthquakes notwithstanding). One reason time is hard to deal with > > >> sensibly is our insistence on synchronising it to the mean solar day. > > > > > > // off topic Easter Time time ramblings > > > Isaac Asimov figured it out years ago. From memory ... > > > > > > Create a new calendar with 52 weeks of 7 days = 364 days. Add one extra > > > day, called World Day, at the end - 365 days. World Day does not have a > > > day > > > of the week. In this way, every date falls on the same day of the week in > > > every year. > > > > Note that this doesn't address the GMT/UT[C01] issue, which is all about the > > relationship between local time and time-as-seen-by-astronomers, or perhaps > > more clearly, time as it relates to the actions of things other than our own > > planet rotating. > > > > > For leaps years, add an extra Leap day after World Day. It too has no day > > > of > > > the week. To make things precise, every 100 years, there is no Leap Day, > > > but > > > every 400 years there is. > > > > > > That pretty well matches up the solar year to the earth's rotation. > > > > I don't find this convincing, FWIW, since it doesn't address issues like > > "every five days" in a terribly meaningful day. All it does is translate > > those into one of two problems: > > > > Either you have "every five days, except once a year when it is six or seven > > days between instances", or "every five days, but which day changes every > > year." > > > > Unfortunately, we can't just stop the world for world day, which means that > > we > > still have unpredictable day/date matching. > > > > [...] > > > > > I don't recall Asimov dealing with the tetchy problem of daylight time. > > > > IIRC he thought it was a silly idea, as were the politically motivated time > > zones. Both views are ... arguably true. :) > > > > Daniel > > > email message attachment > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > From: John Ferlito <jo...@inodes.org> > > To: meryl <gnu...@aromagardens.com.au> > > Cc: slug@slug.org.au > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline > > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 13:15:35 +1100 > > > > On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 12:10:38PM +1100, meryl wrote: > > > > * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed > > > > * Distros compared and evaluated > > > > * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, > > > > tablets, multiple screens > > > > * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple > > > > * OpenOffice techniques and macros > > > > * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques > > > > > > In addition to the above, (a very good list Jon!) I'd also like to see > > > basic/beginning Python, basic/beginning Rails/Ruby, & troubleshooting > > > problems; i.e. using run levels, wireless setup etc... > > > > So this is a very good list of talks. But who is going to volunteer to > > give them? > > > > The problem SLUG has had over the last few years is that we have had a > > new influx of "users" rather than the old band of "techies". > > > > The problem as I see it though is that only the "techies" are willing > > to actually present. > > > > The SLUG committee I'm sure would take up any of the suggested topics > > in a heart beat if anyone was prepared to present them. > > > > So I suppose I would call out to the new crowd of "users" that have > > joined SLUG in the last few years. If you want to make SLUG more > > relevant for you then you need to actually stand up and become a part > > of it. > > > > Things you can do > > > > * Run for the committee > > * Help the committee run meetings > > > > but most importantly offer to give a talk at slug. Even if it is just > > a 10 minute talk on a cool feature you just discovered in Inkscape > > last week. > > > > Cheers, > > John > > > email message attachment > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > From: Jake Anderson <ya...@vapourforge.com> > > To: slug@slug.org.au > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Re: Time Pedantry > > Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:33:03 +1100 > > > > We should all just use unix timestamp for all date/time communications > > and be done with it. > > > > There I fixed it, > > http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/129138460976317329.jpg > > Hail me as leader > > > > Daniel Pittman wrote: > > > Rick Welykochy <r...@praxis.com.au> writes: > > > > > >> Nick Andrew wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>> Indeed. The Earth's rotational period does vary slightly (effect of > > >>> earthquakes notwithstanding). One reason time is hard to deal with > > >>> sensibly is our insistence on synchronising it to the mean solar day. > > >>> > > >> // off topic Easter Time time ramblings > > >> Isaac Asimov figured it out years ago. From memory ... > > >> > > >> Create a new calendar with 52 weeks of 7 days = 364 days. Add one extra > > >> day, called World Day, at the end - 365 days. World Day does not have a > > >> day > > >> of the week. In this way, every date falls on the same day of the week in > > >> every year. > > >> > > > > > > Note that this doesn't address the GMT/UT[C01] issue, which is all about > > > the > > > relationship between local time and time-as-seen-by-astronomers, or > > > perhaps > > > more clearly, time as it relates to the actions of things other than our > > > own > > > planet rotating. > > > > > > > > >> For leaps years, add an extra Leap day after World Day. It too has no > > >> day of > > >> the week. To make things precise, every 100 years, there is no Leap Day, > > >> but > > >> every 400 years there is. > > >> > > >> That pretty well matches up the solar year to the earth's rotation. > > >> > > > > > > I don't find this convincing, FWIW, since it doesn't address issues like > > > "every five days" in a terribly meaningful day. All it does is translate > > > those into one of two problems: > > > > > > Either you have "every five days, except once a year when it is six or > > > seven > > > days between instances", or "every five days, but which day changes every > > > year." > > > > > > Unfortunately, we can't just stop the world for world day, which means > > > that we > > > still have unpredictable day/date matching. > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > >> I don't recall Asimov dealing with the tetchy problem of daylight time. > > >> > > > > > > IIRC he thought it was a silly idea, as were the politically motivated > > > time > > > zones. Both views are ... arguably true. :) > > > > > > Daniel > > > > > > > > > > > email message attachment > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > From: Jake Anderson <ya...@vapourforge.com> > > To: Rick Welykochy <r...@praxis.com.au> > > Cc: slug@slug.org.au > > Subject: Re: Why so snooty? Re: [SLUG] Which bank doesn't use Linux > > servers? > > Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:47:32 +1100 > > > > Rick Welykochy wrote: > > > Jake Anderson wrote: > > > > > >> The bank may well be pretty sure that nothing will go wrong but given > > >> the cost/benefit ratio its prudent not to take the chance that there is > > >> one line of code somewhere or another in the many tens of millions they > > >> have that will freak out when the clock goes backwards. > > > > > > What about ATMs? Will they be down for the count? > > > If not, and the main systems are down, they must queue up > > > transactions. The timestamps on those transactions will > > > have to be handled correctly when the queue is processed. > > > Including transactions during the hour the leaps back. > > Just spoke to somebody "in the know" > > netbank is shut down, all other services are unaffected (well common > > services anyway). > > > > Her explanation is this. > > All other transactions are processed in a batch at night, IF you > > withdraw money at an ATM your account balance is immediately debited but > > the transaction itself is just recorded. > > This is presumably also when all the interests are calculated and so on. > > Only on business nights are those transactions actually processed to > > create a statement. > > Netbank transactions however are processed "instantly". > > As such it can cause issues when the time roles back. > > > > It probably also has something to do with the age of netbank, its very > > very new as far as bank software goes. > > > > > > Listening to the errors they have with processing and the like, its > > enough to make me want to keep my money under the bed. > > > > > > > > The same can be said about bank-to-bank and bank-to-international > > > transactions. > > > > > > It seems like a problem they must already have to deal with. > > > Transactions world wide into and out of Australia do not stop > > > for an hour at 2:00 AM Easter Sunday, do they? > > > > > > Anyone working in the banking sector out there? > > > > > > cheers > > > rickw > > > > > > > > > > > email message attachment > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > From: Adrian Chadd <adr...@creative.net.au> > > To: meryl <gnu...@aromagardens.com.au> > > Cc: slug@slug.org.au > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline > > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 11:11:14 +0800 > > > > FYI: > > > > PLUG has had similar discussions and similar issues. > > It may be worthwhile having the bodies discuss things informally > > to see what ideas can be brainstormed. > > > > On Fri, Apr 02, 2010, meryl wrote: > > > On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:14:03 +1100 > > > jon <jonjer...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > > 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online > > > > > > Yes, I'd become a member if I could do it online or via snail mail. > > > > > > > 2. Take advantage of the increasing interest in Linux on the desktop > > > > by setting up an Applications SIG and/or focussing on applications at > > > > some events. ........... So most of the talks and > > > > events scheduled by SLUG hold no interest for me. > > > > > > Here! Here! I totally agree, the majority of list of 2009 presented > > > talks appeared to be waaay too techy to entice me to come along and > > > SLUGlets talks appear to be too short to offer anything substantial > > > to take away & use. I raised this same issue about a year ago (iirc), & > > > I mentioned that LUV's plans for Software Freedom Day > > > http://softwarefreedomday.org/melb looked like a very appealing program > > > of talks and workshops & that I'd be really keen to see something like > > > that organised on a regular basis, at SLUG-meets, for us Sydney-siders. > > > > > > > * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed > > > > * Distros compared and evaluated > > > > * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, > > > > tablets, multiple screens > > > > * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple > > > > * OpenOffice techniques and macros > > > > * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques > > > > > > In addition to the above, (a very good list Jon!) I'd also like to see > > > basic/beginning Python, basic/beginning Rails/Ruby, & troubleshooting > > > problems; i.e. using run levels, wireless setup etc... > > > > > > cheers, > > > Meryl > > > -- > > > SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ > > > Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html > > > -- > SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ > Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
