Fro easier calculation purposes ? Hot dang. Ok I can't even get a
straight answer what 85% signal is supposed to mean. All I am told is
that it's a "good signal".

Let me be the judge there what a good signal is. dBm is not hard to
calculate and there are TONS of online calculators that can do the
math for you I yet to find a single one that will figure out what %
values you should have when your at X distance with antennas Y and Z
in the two ends with n feet of cable.

When your doing a 20mile shoot and you prepare for it you do the math.
Figure out ok I should with antenna X at each side n feet of cable and
with so much radio power then I should be able to get a -75dB signal
which would mean say 10dB fade to 11Mbit signal levels. Or if you
figure with to small antenna you find yourself with a -88dB signal and
oops you don't have 11Mbit signal level you want to use bigger
antennas.. So when you aim you see you get -80dB and you expect to get
down to -75 well then you know your not right on target and that you
should be able to get a better signal so you keep adjusting both sides
of the link until you get as close as possible to the expected -75
signal.

With values only being displayed in % and a theoretical and highly
incorrect conversation table that is provide with sB you have no idea
if your even close to what you SHOULD be able to get.
Just take a look at the conversation table and bring out a free space
loss calculator and you will quickly find out that some of the values
you supposedly should be able to get according to the % value isn't
even possible.

Best regards,
 Eje "Aya" Gustafsson                 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Family Entertainment Network      http://www.fament.com
Phone : 620-231-7777                  Fax   : 240-376-7272
            - Your Full Time Professionals -
        Online Store http://www.wisp-router.com/
 MikroTik, Star-OS, PACWireless, EnGenius, RF Industries
-- 

SM> We have converted this dbm values into % values for the easier
SM> calculation purpose.

 

SM> Seeni

SM> sB Tech Support

SM> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

SM> -----Original Message-----
SM> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SM> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Sullivan
SM> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 6:42 AM
SM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SM> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Repost: Auto Fallback Settings

 

SM> How do I tell what level I am receiving a signal at? Where can I see the
SM> DB numbers?

SM> When I go to site survey, the DB numbers don't seem to line up with
SM> anything -- a -95 DB signal is almost 100% link quality.

SM> Kevin

SM> ----- Original Message ----- 

SM> From: Seeni <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  Mohamed 

SM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

SM> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:09 PM

SM> Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Repost: Auto Fallback Settings

 

SM> Hi Todd,

 

SM> Normally, the receive sensitivity determines the data rate at what
SM> margin level (dbm) that packets receive at the CPE side.  When the RF
SM> signals transmit in the wireless medium, it also carries the data rate
SM> together with packet size. All of our sB devices are capable to operate
SM> with less overload level. I do not have the exact calculation on this.

 

SM> When you set the device to Auto fall back and the link is not stable
SM> means then the CPE not able to achieve the required margin (Receive
SM> sensitivity) level at 11, 5.5 and 2 and fluctuating between the various
SM> data rate. In order to establish the solid link, you need to ensure that
SM> the system operating at what margin level. It seems like the receive
SM> sensitivity frequently varies between -87 to -88 and that is the reason
SM> it moves up and down. I think you are getting about -88 dbm at fixed
SM> frequency rate. That is the reason we have given this option to select
SM> at fixed level speed to suit your environments.

 


SM> 1Mbps

SM> 2Mbps

SM> 5.5 Mbps

SM> 11Mbps


SM> -94 

SM> -88

SM> -87

SM> -84

 

SM> Thank you

 

SM> Seeni

SM> sB Tech Support

SM> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 

SM> -----Original Message-----
SM> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SM> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Barber
SM> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 12:59 AM
SM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SM> Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Repost: Auto Fallback Settings

 

SM> Seeni,

 

SM>             Thank you for the explanation.  One final question, can you
SM> quantify the overhead needed by the radios when they must negotiate for
SM> a slower speed?  

 

SM>             When we first deployed our network our testing seemed to
SM> indicate there was a lot of thrash when negotiating with auto fallback
SM> enabled.  The connection just seemed slower than if we let it run at a
SM> fixed rate.  We guessed this was do to the time it took to negotiate a
SM> stable connection.    

 

SM>             We have had all auto fallback on our network disabled since
SM> deployment.  We have tried to ensure rock solid links and then set the
SM> customers to only 2Mb on the radio.  The fastest connection we sell is 1
SM> Mb and having the wireless link at 2 Mb has always allowed us to pull
SM> the desired speeds at the CPE.  We have not had issue with radios
SM> loosing association with this setup either.  

 

SM>             I guess the heart of the issue is whether there is enough
SM> thrash in auto negotiation to nullify the on the air speed gains made by
SM> running at 11 Mb with auto fallback enabled.    

 

SM> Todd Barber

SM> Skylink Broadband Internet

SM> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

SM> 970-454-9499

 

SM> -----Original Message-----
SM> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SM> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Seeni Mohamed
SM> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:59 PM
SM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SM> Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Repost: Auto Fallback Settings

 

SM> Hi Todd,

 

SM> Here are the answers for your questions.

 

>>If the CPE radios set to Auto Fallback, but you do not set Auto

>>Fallback on the AP, what is the impact?

 

SM> If the AP set to specific speed (No Auto fall back enabled), it will try
SM> to communicate to the CPE at the specified speed. If the CPE enabled
SM> with Auto fall back rate,

SM> then the CPE will attempt to communicate at the highest speed if
SM> possible, if the specified speed is not achieved then with the Auto
SM> Fallback rate being enabled it will try to speak to the AP at the
SM> available speed.

 

>>If you have Auto Fallback set on the AP, but not on the clients, what
SM> is

>>the impact?

 

SM> The AP always attempts to communicate to the CPE at the highest data
SM> rate if the Auto Fall back enabled in the AP.  If there is any
SM> interference or multi path or if not able to achieve the highest data
SM> rate, then the AP steps down to the next available rate that allows data
SM> transmission. 

SM> Then based on the rates set at each CPE, they will talk to the AP based
SM> on every rate that is being selected at the AP end, if that rate is not
SM> available then the link will go down. Hence Auto Fall back rate is
SM> important to ensure the link is UP for all times.

 

SM> Seeni

SM> sB Tech Support

SM> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

 

SM> -----Original Message-----
SM> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SM> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Barber
SM> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:38 AM
SM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SM> Subject: [smartBridges] Repost: Auto Fallback Settings

 

SM> I never did get an answer on how the particular Auto Fallback options

SM> impact performance or exactly how they work.  

 

SM> Could one of the SB techs chip in on this please?

 

SM> If you have client radios set to Auto Fallback, but you do not set Auto

SM> Fallback on the AP, what is the impact?

 

SM> If you have Auto Fallback set on the AP, but not on the clients, what is

SM> the impact?

 

SM> Todd Barber

SM> Skylink Broadband Internet

SM> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

SM> 970-454-9499

 

 

SM> -----Original Message-----

SM> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

SM> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Barber

SM> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 9:04 PM

SM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

SM> Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

 

SM> Thanks Eje,

 

SM>             I would still be interested for someone to chip in on
SM> exactly

SM> how the auto fallback settings behave.  What happens when the AP has

SM> auto fallback disabled and clients have it enabled?  Do both need to be

SM> enabled for it to work?  Thanks again.

 

SM> Todd Barber

SM> Skylink Broadband Internet

SM> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

SM> 970-454-9499

 

 

SM> -----Original Message-----

SM> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

SM> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson

SM> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 8:52 PM

SM> To: Todd Barber

SM> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

 

 

TB>>         I liked your explanation below.  It makes sense to me but I

SM> was

TB>> wondering about some of the tradeoffs.  

 

SM> Glad someone liked it. Obviously my first one was not to liked by some

SM> and I got accused for being a sales puke and calling people stupid

SM> when all I wanted was to make sure nobody did something stupid because

SM> of lack of knowledge.

 

TB>>         I don't really understand the Auto Fallback options provided

SM> in

TB>> the AP vs. the client.  We have been running all our radios with

SM> auto

TB>> fallback disabled.  Our reasoning was the AP and the client would

SM> both

TB>> spend less time trying to negotiate an acceptable speed and could

SM> just

TB>> get to the data transfer.  We set all our AP's to allow 1, 2.2, 5.5,

SM> and

TB>> 11 Mbs but we disable auto fall back on them.  We then take a look

SM> at

TB>> the quality of each client's link.  If we have a really good link,

SM> we

TB>> might set to 5.5 Mbs but we do not enable auto fallback on the

SM> client.

TB>> If we have a marginal link, which we really try and avoid, we will

SM> set

TB>> to 1 Mbs without auto fallback.  We BW control at the NOC via

SM> Star-OS

TB>> ensuring the maximum residential connection is 512k which even the 1

SM> Mb

TB>> setting in the radio should sustain.  Our network seems pretty

SM> stable so

 

SM> That is good. Star-OS got a pretty good bandwidth shaper with it. I

SM> used MikroTik so much more that I prefer it though. But I do sell

SM> both.

 

TB>> we have been happy.  Please point out any flaws in our logic.

SM> Please

TB>> also explain how the auto fallback options in the client and AP's

SM> impact

TB>> network performance.  i.e. if auto fallback is disabled on the AP

SM> it's

TB>> disable period or if you set it in the client it will still try and

TB>> negotiate.  

 

SM> Fallback can be nice to have if you start to see problems with a

SM> client or the AP. But should normally not be needed. But say you have

SM> a install with poor LOS the tress got leaves on them and it rains and

SM> they get wet. Now your signal start deteriorate very quickly. Your

SM> client is locked at 11Mbit and he lost say 8dB signal and he is not

SM> doing just 1-2dB below 11Mbit limit the wind blows a little moving the

SM> antennas and trees causing temporarly drops 1-2dB and the client

SM> starts to "chop" he start to see lot of package drops and his

SM> connection feels slower then a dailup connection.  If autofallback had

SM> been on his radio could dropped down to 5.5Mbit and things would

SM> worked fine.

 

SM> Another thing If you don't allow autofallback then the client can only

SM> speak when the AP is in the right speed. So if a 1Mbit client lock up

SM> the AP with a lot of traffic the 11Mbit client just have to wait can't

SM> send a single package until the AP is yet doing 11Mbit (I might be a

SM> bit off here but this is my understanding).

 

SM> One thing though is that I heard from numerous source that say that

SM> many radios seems to autofall back way to fast way to easily which

SM> means clients that could run with a steady 11Mbit signal but are at

SM> the fringes gets dropped to 5.5Mbit or maybe 1Mbit and it will take

SM> some time before it goes back to 11Mbit speeds again. By preventing

SM> autofallback you get a more stable and faster network..

 

SM> Decision decisions.. Actually not so much.. Just be sure to do good

SM> installs. Weather seal the snoot out of your connectors and install

SM> with good LOS and have a decent (10-15dB) fade margin (SOM) and you

SM> should have minimal problems.

 

TB>>         I can definitely see the major advantage of running

SM> everything

TB>> at the highest Mbs would the ability of the AP to support more

SM> clients

TB>> because it can get each transaction done faster.

 

SM> Absolutely. When you run a mix of clients in different speeds it's

SM> easy to lose a lot of throughput on your network because of the slower

SM> clients. It's not so much a problem when there is little traffic

SM> and/or a few clients. But when you have a decent amount of clients and

SM> large amount of traffic then you will quickly start to notice it.

 

SM> I had for example on one of my segments a client that had so crappy

SM> signal that I could only get a 1Mbit throughput.. One different client

SM> (actually myself at home) had a 3Mbit signal (this is a Alvarion BAII

SM> FHSS segment but same goes there as with DSSS). When the 1Mbit client

SM> was online (a heavy gamer) and played his online games (EverQuest) my

SM> downloads was <100kbit when I normally could hit >150kbit when he

SM> wasn't online. He didn't create a lot of traffic nor a lot of pacakges

SM> just his steady stream of traffic became noticable. When I got him to

SM> be able to do 3Mbit signal things where ones again good. He would be

playing and I got >>150kbit downloads.

 

TB>>         Thanks in advance for any enlightenment you can share.

 

SM> I might be a sales guy. But in heart I'm a geek. If you come to

SM> wispcon you will probably be able to spot me because I will be one of

SM> the guys that have the most gadgets on me and if you bring a SA you

SM> should be able to track me down with it -lol- ;)

 

SM> I'm a geek skilled with networking and understand RF and running my

SM> own business so we started offering sales and consulting and the sales

SM> have just kept growing more and more items been added to our list.

SM> Many of our customers are very loyal and the keep coming back because

SM> they know I will give them my HONEST "geek" opinion and not just a

SM> sales pitch. The things I sell I have tested out and they gotten my

SM> approval (if I don't like it I will not sell it so don't bother asking

SM> me about Canopy I will NEVER sell those I hate them)..

SM> But also since I have my technical skills I can become a very

SM> dangerous sales guy since I can feed you so much facts and info ;)

SM> -evil grin-  Either way many of my customers coming back for more and

SM> many keep calling me for new projects and ask if about other things

SM> and we keep add items to our list of products due to them.. =)

SM> Ok enough sales pitch here.. But when you need something give us a

SM> call or go to wisp-router.com ;) (sorry couldn't resist.. hehe)

 

SM> / Eje

 

TB>>         SB Techs please feel free to chip in on this.  

 

TB>> Todd Barber

TB>> Skylink Broadband Internet

TB>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

TB>> 970-454-9499

 

 

TB>> -----Original Message-----

TB>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

TB>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson

TB>> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 9:32 PM

TB>> To: Colorado Wisp

TB>> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

 

CW>>> Hmm,

 

CW>>> We talked with Smart Bridges back in January in Denver and they

TB>> suggested

CW>>> this setup.  We have a YDI BCU and it works great, thanks for the

TB>> MicroTik

CW>>> sales pitch.  I apprecitate you calling us dumb, thanks, but maybe

TB>> SB should

CW>>> jump in here and answer the question about everyone sharing a 1Mbps

TB>> pipe,

CW>>> you are trying to tell me that the radio cannot handle more than

SM> one

TB>> CPE at

CW>>> a time, that is not what they have been telling the list...

 

TB>> I'm in no ways calling anyone dumb. Glad you have a YDI BCU every

SM> WISP

TB>> should have and NEED to have SOME sort of bandwidth controller. Be

SM> it a

TB>> YDI

TB>> BCU, Packeteer, MikroTik, Star-OS or simply a Linux box with CBQ or

SM> a

TB>> FreeBSD with dummynet. If you would come to me to get one I would

TB>> promote the MikroTik box since that is what I sell..

 

TB>> To use the speed settings the radio is set to talk to as bandwidth

TB>> controller now that is dumb because that only shows that one haven't

TB>> entirely understood how the radios operate and that was why I

SM> chimmed

TB>> up to make sure that nobody was doing such a dumb thing. We all

TB>> started out learning things at one point and if nobody teach you how

TB>> things really are or tell you it it's easy to think things work

TB>> differently then they really do. I been there ones myself learning

SM> how

TB>> things works. To tell the truth when I started out doing wireless

SM> this

TB>> was the very same way I THOUGHT about doing bandwidth control to the

TB>> clients but then I got to understand what that setting really meant

TB>> and what the effect of it was and then I quickly throwed that idea

SM> out

TB>> in the garbage where it belonged. I learned to understand how things

TB>> really was working and I simply want to help others avoid doing dumb

TB>> and silly mistake.

 

TB>> Yes in a way a radio can not handle more then one CPE at a time.

SM> It's

TB>> doing things in sequential. One at a time. Just like a cashier at a

TB>> supermarket. You use only a single radio channel and only one person

SM> can

TB>> talk on that channel at a time. Just like a CB radio or any other

TB>> radio device. If you have 3 walkie talkies only one can speak at the

TB>> same time. If the guy that speaks take forever to get done talking

TB>> that means that the fast talker will get less time to speak since he

TB>> have to wait so much longer before he can speak.

 

CW>>> We have several customer 6+ miles away and they will only run at

TB>> 1Mbps so

CW>>> doesn't that mean all of the "20mph people" are going to get run

TB>> over by the

CW>>> "220mph people" and as a result have degraded service?  They all

TB>> might as

CW>>> well have the same service level.

 

TB>> No not quit but pretty close. When a 20mph customer is speaking the

SM> AP

TB>> is running in 1Mbit mode which forces all 220mph people to run in

TB>> 20mph as well. They will simply have to slow down and wait for their

TB>> turn. However IF the 20mph person is NOT driving on the road (not

TB>> transmitting any data) then your 220mph people can go at full speed.

TB>> But as soon as the 20mph person start sending data then entire cell

TB>> will slow down to 1Mbit speeds.

TB>> The radio is NOT capable of doing multiple speeds at the SAME same

TB>> (simultaneously) but it can sure switch between the different speeds

TB>> but the switching is not instantantoiously.

 

TB>> Best way to find this out for yourself is to associate 2 clients to

SM> a

TB>> AP. Force one client radio to ONLY speak at 1Mbit and allow the

SM> other

TB>> client radio to run at 1,2,5.5,11Mbit and then start a continously

TB>> stream of data (say streaming media or a large download) on your

SM> 1Mbit

TB>> client now try to do a ftp download or other speed test with your

TB>> other client and see what speeds you get.. You will notice that you

TB>> will not get any better then 1Mbit speed (well actually half since

SM> you

TB>> share the 1Mbit with the other client)..

TB>> Now for fun try to lock one of your clients into 11Mbit only and the

TB>> other at 1Mbit only and do the same test and see the disastrous

TB>> results you will get.

 

CW>>> SB, please clarify this...

 

TB>> Nothing for SB to clarify really it's a matter of physics and how

SM> the

TB>> wireless works.

 

TB>> To give you a other example.

 

TB>> Say if your client would send A at 1Mbit compared to other speeds.

 

TB>> Speed   Period in time (seconds)

TB>> 1Mbit   "     A     "

TB>> 2Mbit   "   A   A   "

TB>> 5.5Mbit "A  A  A  A "

TB>> 11Mbit  "AAAAAAAAAAA"

 

TB>> In 1Mbit you will only be able to send 1Mbit per second.

TB>> So say in a given time period you can only send one A.

TB>> When you run at 2Mbit you can send twice the amount of data in the

TB>> same time period. So you can send 2 A's in the same time it takes

SM> the

TB>> 1Mbit guy to send a single A.

TB>> In 11Mbit you can send 11 A's in the same time period as the 1Mbit

TB>> client can send a single A.

 

TB>> Now if your 1Mbit client is sending data then for X seconds your

TB>> airwaves are filled with 1Mbit worth of data.

TB>> So during this time the 11Mbit client can not speak because the

TB>> airwaves are occupied.. If your 1Mbit client speak for 20sec out

TB>> of a entire minute then this have eaten up 1/3 of of the 11Mbit

TB>> clients possible air time. So this means that the 11Mbit clients can

TB>> only send data at max speed for 2/3 of the time

TB>> which means he did not achive 11Mbit speeds.

 

TB>> Lesson learned try to get all customers on a single cell to run at

TB>> 11Mbit or 5.5Mbit speeds to be able to get max throughput on your

SM> cell

TB>> for your clients.

TB>> If you have clients far away that can only get 1Mbit signal you

SM> should

TB>> consider if possible get them a stronger radio (say a 200mw radio)

SM> or

TB>> bigger antenna (24dB grid unless they already have it) or better LOS

TB>> if they don't have good LOS already..

TB>> If your clients are only getting 1Mbit signal then they are very

SM> close

TB>> to not getting any signal and you really should consider using

SM> larger

TB>> antenna, stronger radio or higher mast pole. If none of these works

TB>> because your client is so far away then you should either create a

TB>> second cell for just these clients preferably closer to the clients

SM> or

TB>> simply put them on a different AP then your closer in clients..

 

TB>> But just to give you a somewhat correlation of distance and radio

TB>> power etc..

 

TB>>

SM> http://www.fament.com/wireless/calculators/simple_som.php?frequency=2400

TB>>

SM> &distance=10&rxsensitivity=-85&txpower=17&txloss=1&txgain=24&rxgain=8&rx

TB>> loss=1&SOMcalc=Calc

 

TB>> Client 10 Miles away. Using a aB which means 17dB radio with -85

SM> receive

TB>> sensitivity for 11Mbit signal and figure 1dB cable loss and a 24dB

TB>> grid and a 8dB omni on the AP side with 1dB cable loss before the

TB>> APPo.

 

TB>> IF you have enough clear line of sight a client 10 Miles away should

TB>> about 7.8dB signal fade margin to the 11Mbit signal limit. Which

TB>> should be plenty enough to sustain a 11Mbit signal with some

TB>> occasional dips down to 5.5Mbit.

 

TB>> It's all math and physics.

 

TB>> - Eje

 

CW>>> -----Original Message-----

CW>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

TB>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

CW>>> On Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson

CW>>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 8:55 PM

CW>>> To: Colorado Wisp

CW>>> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

 

 

CW>>> Your setting the data rate to 1 Mbps to offer a 512k service ? Now

TB>> that

CW>>> isn't very good nor smart. This means that your entire cell NEVER

TB>> runs any

CW>>> faster then 1Mbps. ALL your customers are sharing 1Mbps.

 

CW>>> Don't use the radio speed settings as a bandwidth throttle

SM> mechanism

TB>> get a

CW>>> bandwidth shaper. Get a MikroTik box or a YDI BCU or something but

TB>> by george

CW>>> do not set the radio speed to 1Mbit as a way of bandwidth throttle

TB>> your

CW>>> clients... That is a waste of radiowaves..

 

CW>>> I do sell MikroTik routers and bandwidth controllers so I'm

SM> somewhat

TB>> biased

CW>>> but whatever you do don't do what you do today get yourself a real

TB>> bandwidth

CW>>> shaper from me or from anyone else..

 

CW>>> Because I hope you do understand by setting the data rate to 1Mbps

TB>> means you

CW>>> limit ALL your clients to run at a TOTAL of 1Mbps (not 1Mbps per

TB>> client to

CW>>> the AP but 1Mbps for ALL clients).

 

CW>>> Think of it as a single file road. If the speed limit is 20mph then

TB>> only so

CW>>> many cars can pass a certain stretch of the road in any given time

TB>> period

CW>>> (your 1Mbit setting). Now if you up the speed limit to 40mph (2Mbit

TB>> setting)

CW>>> still single file road then twice as many cars

CW>>> (bytes) can be pass through on your road.

CW>>> If you up to 110mph (5.5Mbit) then you can now pass 5.5 times

SM> amount

TB>> of cars

CW>>> in the same time period as on the 20mph single file road (more

SM> bytes

TB>> can be

CW>>> uploaded or downloaded in the same time period). Now lets go all

SM> the

TB>> way and

CW>>> do 11Mbit or 220mph.. Still single file road (you only use one

TB>> frequency to

CW>>> talk to your clients)..

 

CW>>> Best regards,

CW>>>  Eje Gustafsson                       mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

CW>>> The Family Entertainment Network      http://www.fament.com

CW>>> Phone : 620-231-7777                  Fax   : 620-231-4066

CW>>>            - Your Full Time Professionals -

CW>>>         Online Store http://www.wisp-router.com/

CW>>>      PACWireless Antennas Distributor - MikroTik OEM

CW>>> --

CW>>>> Hi,

 

CW>>>> I have not followed the entire thread, but here is what we set the

 

CW>>>> aB CPE

CW>>>> at:

 

CW>>>> Frag Threshold: 1066

CW>>>> RTS Threshold: 256

 

CW>>>> IP of the CPE is static private (192.168.5.X), full class c subent

 

CW>>>> and 0.0.0.0 for the gateway.  Data rate is set at 1 Mbps.  We only

 

CW>>>> offer 512 service, so no need to run any higher.

 

CW>>>> Our APPO are set at:

 

CW>>>> Fragmentation: 2346

CW>>>> RTS/CTS: 2346

 

CW>>>> All data rates are checked on the APPO, static private IP...

 

CW>>>> Could your problem be that the CPE radios are connecting a

TB>> different 

CW>>>> speeds and the APPO is always busy changing data rates to talk to 

CW>>>> the various CPEs?

 

CW>>>> Try that...

CW>>>> Chris

 

CW>>>> ---

CW>>>> Colorado WISP llc. http://www.cowisp.net

CW>>>> Bringing high speed internet to rural communities.

CW>>>> P.O. Box 55

CW>>>> Wellington, Colorado  80549

CW>>>> 970-218-5295

 

 

CW>>>> -----Original Message-----

CW>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

CW>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

CW>>>> On Behalf Of Blazen Wireless

CW>>>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 3:01 PM

CW>>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

CW>>>> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems 

 

 

CW>>>> I also forgot to mention I throttled the one big user down to 

CW>>>> 100kbps and same think its like it has a hold on the APPO at 11

TB>> megs  

CW>>>> (5.5) and wont let anything else talk to it??

 

 

CW>>>> ----- Original Message -----

CW>>>> From: "Blazen Wireless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

CW>>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

CW>>>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 2:59 PM

CW>>>> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

 

 

CW>>>> Okay this slow down is really killing me I have all users turned

TB>> off

CW>>> that

CW>>>> appear to be sending any kind of arp but this was not what was

TB>> causing

CW>>> the

CW>>>> slowdowns. I have two users on right now one downloading at

SM> 700kbps

TB>> and

CW>>> the

CW>>>> other one my slow customer just trying to surf and cant due it due

TB>> to

CW>>> ping

CW>>>> rates we beyond out of control 300-400 and packet loss.

 

CW>>>> I turn off the one customer who is downloading and the problem

TB>> resolves.

CW>>> I

CW>>>> called the customer downloading and they are doing Microsoft

TB>> patches on

CW>>>> their machines right now so its not a virus. What gives why can

SM> one

CW>>> person

CW>>>> not taking up the full bandwidth screw the whole system I mean

TB>> every one

CW>>>> else is at a dead stand still??

 

CW>>>> To me this is a problem in the radio APPO not being able to talk

SM> to

TB>> two

CW>>>> radios at the same time at two different speeds this thing is

TB>> totally

CW>>> just

CW>>>> sh**ing all over itself?

 

CW>>>> Anyone else see this happen I had the APPO set to 1 meg only 2 meg

TB>> and

CW>>> 5.5

CW>>>> and also 11 but nothing seems to help! I have RTS set to 800 on

SM> the

CW>>> clients

CW>>>> and that made no difference I give up this customer wants me to

TB>> come

CW>>> pull

CW>>>> the equipment..

 

CW>>>> Any ideas?

CW>>>> HELP!

CW>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 

CW>>>> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

CW>>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

CW>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 6:02 PM

CW>>>> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

 

 

CW>>>> This can get tricky.  You need to be on a port that sees all of

SM> the

CW>>> traffic

CW>>>> - read that as 'not a switch port'.  By definition a switch will

TB>> only

CW>>> show

CW>>>> you packets destined for your computer.

 

CW>>>> If you really want to see what going on you need a hub or a

SM> managed

CW>>> switch

CW>>>> that can replicate all traffic onto a port.

 

CW>>>> Another option is to use a wireless card in promiscious mode - a

TB>> mode

CW>>> where

CW>>>> you see all of the traffic.   Ethereal will do this with (I think)

TB>> most

CW>>>> common wireless cards.

 

CW>>>> Mark Radabaugh

CW>>>> Amplex

CW>>>> (419) 720-3635

 

CW>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 

CW>>>> From: "Pascal Losier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

CW>>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

CW>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 5:41 PM

CW>>>> Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

 

 

>>>>>

>>>>> Just a small question,

>>>>>

>>>>> When running ethereal, Do you run it directly on the router

>>>>> (ex.Mikrotik) or on any system connected to the router.

>>>>>

>>>>> Also does it matter if the system running ethereal is log via PPPOE

 

>>>>> ????

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blazen

SM> Wireless

>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 6:12 PM

>>>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>>>>> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> HAHA well then my router has the virus I get like over 2000 arp 

>>>>> request from the router in less then 20 min which I think is way

SM> out

 

>>>>> of control it always is asking who has what IP etc. I was told this

TB>> is 

>>>>> normal in order for the router to know what IP has what mac etc..

>>>>>

>>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>>> From: "Scott Damron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>>>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 12:15 PM

>>>>> Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> A WHOLE bunch of arp requests.  If you run ethereal, you would see 

>>>>> upwards of 30 or 40% ARP requests.  Some of the viruses cause ARP 

>>>>> storms.

>>>>>

>>>>> Scott

>>>>>

>>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blazen

SM> Wireless

>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 12:09 PM

>>>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>>>>> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> What do you mean check arp I know how to check it but what am I 

>>>>> looking for??

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>>> From: "Scott Damron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>>>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:37 AM

>>>>> Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Check ARP.

>>>>>

>>>>> Scott

>>>>>

>>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blazen

SM> Wireless

>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:17 AM

>>>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>>>>> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I have done that already and there is no ICMP other then me pinging

 

>>>>> the radios It doesn't happen when there is no one online it only 

>>>>> happens when a few close users get on and start to surf and then

SM> the

 

>>>>> far users have a hard time with dropped packets and slow speeds and

 

>>>>> high pings. I just thing I need to open up another AP closer to

SM> them

 

>>>>> and keep my distance down to under 5 miles. The one person having

TB>> the 

>>>>> hardest time is about 5.6 miles which is closer then my 7.2 mile 

>>>>> customer who is doing great and pointed at the same radio APPO. It 

>>>>> might just be this person is in a bad area with more interference

SM> is

 

>>>>> what I am thinking and I also may need to raise her ant a smidge..

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>>>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:47 AM

>>>>> Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Every time I've experienced interference (numerous times), it

SM> hasn't

 

>>>>> affected ping times.  >From what I've seen, it usually causes lost 

>>>>> packets, but not high latency.  I don't know if anyone has

SM> mentioned

 

>>>>> this before (I jumped in in the middle of this thread), but what 

>>>>> you're describing sounds exactly like something I experienced a few

 

>>>>> weeks ago. I had about six users with the Welchia virus, and they

TB>> were 

>>>>> causing high latency all over the network.  If you haven't done it 

>>>>> already, put a packet sniffer on the network, and see if you're

TB>> seeing 

>>>>> a lot of icmp echo traffic.

>>>>>

>>>>> Craig

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Quoting Blazen Wireless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>>>>>

>>>>> > Well maybe this is not the problem now I am back to the same

TB>> issues 

>>>>> > pings up to over 100ms and it seems now more with radios that

TB>> never 

>>>>> > had problems before I am thinking more of interference now? How

TB>> many 

>>>>> > of you have seen a drastic increase in SOHO wireless routers

TB>> popping 

>>>>> > up on your site survey tab when setting up a customer, I s**t you

 

>>>>> > not one the other day had 11

>>>>> that

>>>>> > all

>>>>> > said linksys or the default ssid for dlink stuff. Are those

>>>>> manufacturers

>>>>> > within spec it seems more and more are popping up and some with 

>>>>> > better

>>>>>

>>>>> > signal then my tower according to the site survey numbers in the

TB>> ABO

>>>>> /ABI

>>>>> >

>>>>> >

>>>>> > ----- Original Message -----

>>>>> > From: "Scott Damron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>>>>> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 9:07 AM

>>>>> > Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>> >

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Actually, it does not really drop everyone down to 1meg, it just 

>>>>> > _MAY_

>>>>>

>>>>> > slow down the 11meg folks in order to respond to the 1meg person.

 

>>>>> > Hope

>>>>>

>>>>> > that makes sense.

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Scott

>>>>> > -----Original Message-----

>>>>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>>>>> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of The Wirefree

 

>>>>> > Network

>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 9:08 AM

>>>>> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>>>>> > Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>> >

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Huh!??!?  This seems bass ackwards.  If one client associates at

SM> 1

 

>>>>> > Meg, it drops everyone down to that speed.  Not the other way 

>>>>> > around. Weakest link theory.  If a client can not associate at 11

 

>>>>> > Meg and steps it's way down to 1 Meg, then it CAN NOT be forced

SM> to

 

>>>>> > connect at 11 Meg. However, a client who is close in with 100%

TB>> RSSI, 

>>>>> > could be stepped down to 1 Meg based on some far out client.

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Sully

>>>>> >

>>>>> > -----Original Message-----

>>>>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>>>>> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blazen

TB>> Wireless

>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 11:56 PM

>>>>> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>>>>> > Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>> >

>>>>> > I have throttling in place now thats not the issue. The issue is

TB>> in 

>>>>> > my

>>>>>

>>>>> > opinion and theory is at what rate the radios associate at.. If

TB>> they 

>>>>> > are only associating at 1 meg or less then yes you will have 

>>>>> > throughput problems, if I have all my close customers able to 

>>>>> > associate at 11 megs

>>>>> > (5.5) and my furthest customers only at 1 meg ( 500kbps) then the

 

>>>>> > further users are not going to be able to associate at 1 meg but 

>>>>> > will

>>>>> be

>>>>> > forced to associate at 11 megs and since that is not a stable

SM> link

>>>>> they

>>>>> > will suffer as I kind of proved tonight but cant be 100% sure

TB>> unless 

>>>>> > I

>>>>>

>>>>> > could verify what speed the users radios are associating at to

SM> the

 

>>>>> > AP.

>>>>>

>>>>> > In theory the AP cant be associated to 3 to 4 radios all at 

>>>>> > different speeds. They will be associated at the speed of the 

>>>>> > slowest radio or

>>>>> the

>>>>> > fastest depending on what radio has the best link I think?

>>>>> >

>>>>> > ----- Original Message -----

>>>>> > From: Vasu (sB Tech Team)

>>>>> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 11:27 PM

>>>>> > Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>> >

>>>>> > That's the basics of 802.11 std, when one user hogs the entire 

>>>>> > bandwidth the remaining users have to share the bandwidth, hence 

>>>>> > bandwidth throttling is important to ensure good and stable links

TB>> to 

>>>>> > all users, I think the XO series access point should solve your 

>>>>> > problem which can provide dedicated bandwidth to every user.

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Vasu

>>>>> > -----Original Message-----

>>>>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

>>>>> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blazen

TB>> Wireless

>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 2:02 PM

>>>>> > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'

>>>>> > Subject: [smartBridges] Slow down problems

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Okay I think I have figured out the problem with my system. It

TB>> seems 

>>>>> > that when users are one (close users) they are associated to the 

>>>>> > APPO at 5.5 to 11 megs possibly and the users that are further

TB>> away 

>>>>> > are at 1 meg max well if you have the near users at 11 megs tying

TB>> up 

>>>>> > the radio and the far uses cant connect at a slower speed for a 

>>>>> > better link / speed quality then the far users suffer? am I

TB>> correct 

>>>>> > in my theory does that make any sense?

>>>>> >

>>>>> > So going forward we are going to have to plan some more sites

TB>> closer 

>>>>> > to the users having issues etc Has anyone else experienced this.

SM> I

 

>>>>> > cant verify 100% that this is true due to the fact the radios

TB>> don't 

>>>>> > report what speed they are associated at? Can someone think of a

TB>> way 

>>>>> > to validate this theory??

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Thanks

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Martin & Steve

>>>>> > Blazen Wireless

>>>>> > www.blazenwireless.com

>>>>> >

>>>>> >

>>>>> > ----------ANNOUNCEMENT----------

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>>>>> >

>>>>> > The PART-15.ORG smartBridges Discussion List

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SM> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

>>>>> > (in

>>>>>

>>>>> > the body type unsubscribe

>>>>> > smartBridges)

>>>>> > Archives: http://archives.part-15.org

>>>>> >

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TB>> unsubscribe

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>>>>>

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TB>> -- 

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TB>> Archives: http://archives.part-15.org  

 

 

 

SM> Best regards,

SM>  Eje Gustafsson                       mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

SM> ---

SM> The Family Entertainment Network      http://www.fament.com

SM> Phone : 620-231-7777                  Fax   : 620-231-4066

SM> eBay UserID : macahan

SM>           - Your Full Time Professionals -

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